KTM or Cube? Bosch or Panasonic?

[elderse]

Hello there, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster here. been reading all the interesting posts coming up here but I've finally convinced myself to get an ebike since I really need get moving a little and would be nice to be able to bike to work and I've come to the conclusion that an ebike is the only way for me right now for that
This is me:

• Living in Sweden, so fairly short summer but I don't mind biking in the snow. Anyone tried biking in sub zero temps, I assume battery will be less happy?
• Bike will be kept indoor in heated garage and I'll be able to charge at work.
• My commute would be around 15km each way, quite hilly althought nothing too crazy. 95% paved road.
• Around 85kg and just below 190cm tall.
• Don't mind taking a round on some trails in the forest when feeling for it.
• I will probably import my ebike from Germany since there's so much more there.

So, I have tried a few ebikes lately, mostly with hub motors like batavus and the more common city bikes. I did try a bike with 2013 bosch (I guess it's called "classic" now) motor and I did really like the responsive pedelec system and the display. Hopefully I will be able to try out a KTM erace P this week.

So after alot of thought and reading up I've narrowed in on the Cube hybrid SUV 29er 2014 and the KTM ecross P, why these? Well these two has stayed on my mind regarding looks and seems to be quite good both of them. I've read good stuff about the panasonic hub motors and their range. Regenerative braking is also a plus, I guess it doesn't do much to extend the range from what I've read but more about saving the brake pads. The KTM have a bit better brakes and seems to be somewhat more styrdy?

The Cube SUV seems nice too with the 2014 bosch active motor and pricewise it's almost the same as an KTM Ecross P 2013 model. Do anyone have some thoughts about comparing these bikes?
I guess I really should try these bikes out since it's a big investment but the market around here is really bleak to say the least.

I do have two questions at the moment I hope someone could help me with:

• What differs between the Panasonic 2013 and 2014 hub motors/systems, if anything?
• How is the Panasonic display unit? it seems to me it's hard to beat the Bosch, I like the remaining distance approximation and that it's generally easy to read. I haven't seen much about the panasonic or found any user manuals for it yet.

Sorry for bad English and the long post
Cheers!

 

[EddiePJ]

Hi elderse, a few of my thoughts in respect of the KTM E-CROSSp can be found here.http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/2014-ktm-e-crossp.17969/

In respect of the console, I'm finding it fiddly when compared to the Bosch console, but I'm sure that I'd get used to it over time. Wearing gloves in cold weather and using it could be a different story altogether though, as you might find that the various buttons are too close together, and you could find yourself turning it off when switching between modes.

I would strongly suggest that whatever bike that you try, wear your winter gloves for the test. You might look daft at this time of year, but it could save a lot of winter time hassle.

The remaining distance of battery, can be viewed by percentage and with a battery symbol. Using the percentage display, I found myself needlessly worrying about consumption. The battery symbol display is somehow more reassuring and seemingly very accurate. You won't have to be concerned over that detail.

I've not seen the Cube in real life, but I can vouch for good build/component quality on the KTM.

Give Col, from KTM Industries a nudge for further bike details. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/members/ktm-bike-industries-uk.8115/







.

 

[RobF]

Riding on snow presumably means studded/winter tyres for some of the year.

Crank drive will be better because changing the tyre on a hub is a fiddle, whatever the maker says.

 

[Paws]

As a Cube SUV owner I can share some thoughts about the bike after 300 km of usage.
- I can't compare the engines since this is my first pedelec, but I can tell that for commuting with no steep hills the active engine is more than enough....actually I got some infos from GER forums that somewhat increased torque on performance engine is not noticeable for above usage. And it seems that active shuts down on 26.5 km/h (like on my bike) vs 25 km/h with performance...It's not a biggie but it's nice.
- About the range...on eco/tour modes which are powerful enough for me for the flat roads I get 70-100 km which I find quite good
- The bike in whole is very well made. I had some faint squeaking sound coming from the frame which lasted for 50 km or so but it's gone now
- The Deore M615 brakes are very very good, with nice stopping power and modulation
- The tires are not so important since can be changed of course, but stock Big Apples 2'' are comfortable when inflated 2-2,5 bar with relatively good rolling features (although that 25 km/h comes too fast)
- Selle Italia X1 was too hard for me so I switched it for Man Gel Flow which is so far superb
- There aren't holes for the bottle cage mount so I had to improvise with the seatpost mount
- When riding it above assisted level the speeds of around 30 km/h can be maintained even for relatively unfit lad like me
- I'm not a forks expert but my XCR air works nicely absorbing usual road bumps and such
- Not that the aesthetic matters but the KTM battery is somewhat uglier, although KTM bikes in general are quite appealing for me
And as a final thought KTM Panasonic bikes were also in my considerations, but the presumed quality of the Bosch systems and much bigger market share (coupled with ok-ish price) made it for me.
So far the bike gets 9/10 from me (1/10 will be dealt when the bada** comes)

 

[elderse]

Thanks you so much for your input! And EddiePJ, I read your views on the erace p with great interest Was also nice to hear some about the SUV, hard to find people reviewing it, I guess it's quite new.

Yesterday I had the chance to try out two more bikes.

First I tried a KTM macina cross 10 with the bosch motor, very nice bike and assist system! I'm still amazed how fast it senses and cut's off the assist. Very nice build quality and felt quite comfortable.

Second I tried the KTM erace P, EddiePJ was spot on with my first impressions of the bike. It certainly has a bit more push in the motor. It took the very steep hills better than the Bosch, but it was also a bit more noisier than the bosch and it kept the assist for a little time after I had stopped pedaling. One thing I liked is was being able to use the regenrative braking. it was much more useful than I had thought, I barely used the discs.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Cube SUV with the bosch system even if the panasonic system had it's pro's.
I asked the seller what the changes between the 2013 and 2014 panasonic models and he didnt really know since they started carrying them this year, although we saw the specs were exactly the same.
Anyway, thanks for your input!

 

[EddiePJ]

Crank drive will be better because changing the tyre on a hub is a fiddle, whatever the maker says.

I've never actually found it any hassle to remove the rear wheel from the BH, and the KTM looks to be just as easy. Without breaking into a sweat, I can have easily have the rear wheel out and back in again, in less than five minutes.

I find the SRAM DD3 hub on the crank drive Haibike to be far more of a fiddle.

 

[RobF]

I've never actually found it any hassle to remove the rear wheel from the BH, and the KTM looks to be just as easy. Without breaking into a sweat, I can have easily have the rear wheel out and back in again, in less than five minutes.

I find the SRAM DD3 hub on the crank drive Haibike to be far more of a fiddle.

A quick release is another consideration - if you buy a Bosch with a derailleur.

 

[halfer]

I've never had regen braking on any of my bikes, but from what I've read here, it's a waste of money: it reduces in effectiveness as you learn to brake less, and the cash is better spent on improving the quality of other components.

 

[elderse]

A little update!
Thanks for all your advice, after trying out some I ended up ordering a Cube SUV hybrid 29er with a 21" frame from Germany since it isn't availiable here and I love it.

There have been lots of rain but since past two weeks since I got it I've been covering around 170km No issues really, I had a little noise from the cranks but after 50km it was all silent. The only thing I'm about to change is the saddle I think..it's pretty hard
I get about 70-90km around here per charge and there are a few long and steep hills. I normally use the eco or tour mode but for long hills I just select the turbo and be happy
I can't be more happy about the bike and I try to take at least a little ride every day.
Cheers!

 

[falmouthtony]

A little update!
Thanks for all your advice, after trying out some I ended up ordering a Cube SUV hybrid 29er with a 21" frame from Germany since it isn't availiable here and I love it.

There have been lots of rain but since past two weeks since I got it I've been covering around 170km No issues really, I had a little noise from the cranks but after 50km it was all silent. The only thing I'm about to change is the saddle I think..it's pretty hard
I get about 70-90km around here per charge and there are a few long and steep hills. I normally use the eco or tour mode but for long hills I just select the turbo and be happy
I can't be more happy about the bike and I try to take at least a little ride every day.
Cheers!

I've just purchased a Cube Reaction Hybrid Race 29er ... similar to your SUV ... 21'' frame again ... and, like you, couldn't be more pleased with it. The build quality seems very good to me and it has certainly dealt with steep rocky climbs and descents just as capably as the tarmac in the two weeks I've had it. I use the power in much the same way as you, although a lot of the time I find it enjoyable to ride on the flat without any assistance, as long as there's no significant head wind. The bike feels beautifully balanced.
Lets hope we both still consider we've made a good choice as time progresses. Take care.

 

[EddiePJ]

Lets hope we both still consider we've made a good choice as time progresses. Take care.

I'm sure that you both will.

Enjoy.

 

[jackhandy]

I have to admit Tony's Cube is a beautifully understated looking bike - Absolutely love the plain matt black: Far nicer than the Ktm orange.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

its the joys of having such a big range most, in fact I'd go so far as to say 90% of our eBikes don't even have orange on them.

of course if you want ORANGE, we do it

but I don't think you'll find anything this bright in the eBike range for 2015, we save it for the "race" bikes.