Kona Ute tsdz2 conversion

[potato]

Hi all,
Arrival of first child earlier this year and after going around looking at nurseries for when she's older, we picked one. Of course, I happened to notice that the car park was quite small, likely to be busy, and that there is rather a nice cycle route through some local woods that would be a more direct route and quieter (and therefore safer) on a bike... with just the caveat that the route is all up and down, with a short sharp switchback climb in one spot.. you can see where this is going.

A friend's kids had just grown out of fitting in the child seats on his Kona Ute, so he wanted to sell the bike.. perfect opportunity!



It sat idle for a little while but when Christmas parties started it seemed like a good opportunity to ride it into town to see how it behaved before conversion



With the answer being that it rode quite nicely - not something you'd ever want to ride fast but smooth and calm.

After much measuring and consultation with Peddlin Pedro on his build, I ordered a TSDZ2 kit.

I am the kind of person who can measure twice, three times and then still get the hole in the wrong place so with much care I managed to drill 4 new bosses on the downtube to fit the battery (which is a very tight fit!) - I even got 3 of them in the right spot and the 4th close enough, and learn the new skill of putting rivnuts in. I'm too cheap to buy a proper right angle drill so used a cheap adapter, which kind of worked - not as tidy, but the rivnut flange hides the worst of the sins.

I've refreshed the drivetrain - new gear cable inner + outer, new cassette + chain, now just replacing of connectors, a bit of soldering and cable tidying and it'll be ready for a test ride.



Only point of concern is whether or not the kit can handle the 42t chainring the motor came with - originally the bike had a 22/36 double on the front. It has a 11/32 cassette on the rear and a 500w motor. Any thoughts?

 

[Nealh]

I also have a nice UTE in Burgundy and plan on the same conversion next year.
With the tsdz motor heat mods would be the first thing I would carry out before fitting as they do suffer with poor heat dispersion and are the start of Achilles heal of issues for them, more so I one would say for a heavier cargo bike and the loads is may take.

 

[guerney]

I also have a nice UTE in Burgundy and plan on the same conversion next year.
With the tsdz motor heat mods would be the first thing I would carry out before fitting as they do suffer with poor heat dispersion and are the start of Achilles heal of issues for them, more so I one would say for a heavier cargo bike and the loads is may take.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm interested in hearing about what heat mods one can make to a TSDZ.

 

[Nealh]

Tsdz has many air gaps an hollows between motor/controller and outer shell, still air isn't a very good conductor of heat as all. The ES guys use thermal conductive sticky heat pads( as heat sinks) to wrap the around the motor and controller and to generally remove as many air pockets as poss on both side of the motor, the direct contact with the outer motor shell/covers transfers the heat faster to be cooled. They have also installed temp probes before and after to show the heat mods work very well.
Hardware temperature control tsdz2 - Endless Sphere (endless-sphere.com)

 

[potato]

Interesting. The typical journey for this will be quite short at about 5 miles, hopefully not enough time for it to bake itself but I'll have a read.

Answered a question I'd not managed to find an answer to on the internet - with the Ute being a long bike, you'll need 2 chains, not just one to get the correct length

 

[Nealh]

5 miles is more then enough distance for the motor to get warm or hot at times esp on warm day, when I get my tsdz (a 48v 250w model) the first job I will carry out is an interior temp sensor and thermal heat mods. Pretty sure the heat affect also has some affect on the Blue gear failing as well.

 

[potato]

Just having read that other thread, yeah.. does seem like a real problem. Some hilariously ghetto solutions out there, can't blame folks for trying I guess. This particular effort looks reasonable and diyable. Subjective 1 - 10 difficulty, lets say 5 being installing a tsdz2 kit, how hard is it to open up the casing, slap some paste + alu shims + paste on and put it back together again without converting the motor to a paperweight?

 

[Nealh]

To me the thermal conductive strips look the better answer as they can be bought in a variety of thickness's to suit the differing air gaps are are slightly compressible.

 

[potato]

For the avoidance of doubt - these ones? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32891181230.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27344c4dq6eFov

and this paste (or similar)

Pardon our interruption...

In a suitable thickness to bridge the air gap between the motor and casing, so that the casing can act as a heat sink with the outside world airflow on it

 

[matthewslack]

Hi all,
Arrival of first child earlier this year and after going around looking at nurseries for when she's older, we picked one. Of course, I happened to notice that the car park was quite small, likely to be busy, and that there is rather a nice cycle route through some local woods that would be a more direct route and quieter (and therefore safer) on a bike... with just the caveat that the route is all up and down, with a short sharp switchback climb in one spot.. you can see where this is going.

A friend's kids had just grown out of fitting in the child seats on his Kona Ute, so he wanted to sell the bike.. perfect opportunity!

View attachment 45078

It sat idle for a little while but when Christmas parties started it seemed like a good opportunity to ride it into town to see how it behaved before conversion

View attachment 45079

With the answer being that it rode quite nicely - not something you'd ever want to ride fast but smooth and calm.

After much measuring and consultation with Peddlin Pedro on his build, I ordered a TSDZ2 kit.

I am the kind of person who can measure twice, three times and then still get the hole in the wrong place so with much care I managed to drill 4 new bosses on the downtube to fit the battery (which is a very tight fit!) - I even got 3 of them in the right spot and the 4th close enough, and learn the new skill of putting rivnuts in. I'm too cheap to buy a proper right angle drill so used a cheap adapter, which kind of worked - not as tidy, but the rivnut flange hides the worst of the sins.

I've refreshed the drivetrain - new gear cable inner + outer, new cassette + chain, now just replacing of connectors, a bit of soldering and cable tidying and it'll be ready for a test ride.

View attachment 45080

Only point of concern is whether or not the kit can handle the 42t chainring the motor came with - originally the bike had a 22/36 double on the front. It has a 11/32 cassette on the rear and a 500w motor. Any thoughts?

Your 42T will get you going, and then you will learn what you really need!

I have 38T and 9 speed 11-34 cassette, and I often load my trailer fairly heavy, so similar to a cargo bike with lots of cargo...

...when I replace I will go to a 34T chain ring and the biggest cassette I can find! I do not need my highest 5wo gears unless pedalling downhill above the 25km cut off, so with these changes I'll have better hill climbing and no real loss at the fast end.

 

[Nealh]

I did bookmark some on Ali at about 16w/mk for max thermal conductivity.

 

[guerney]

Just having read that other thread, yeah.. does seem like a real problem. Some hilariously ghetto solutions out there, can't blame folks for trying I guess. This particular effort looks reasonable and diyable. Subjective 1 - 10 difficulty, lets say 5 being installing a tsdz2 kit, how hard is it to open up the casing, slap some paste + alu shims + paste on and put it back together again without converting the motor to a paperweight?

I opted for the Bafang BBS01b, but I've always been interested in the Tong - I'd be very interested to know how your motor copes with very heavy loads uphill, especially in hot weather. My bike has 52T front and 32T/11T, so far it has tackled all the steepest local hills well, with bike and rider lugging very heavy rucksack plus pannier bag loads. I killed the controller (the jury is out as to whether I'm guilty of controllercide - the seller didn't test the controller I returned to his "Diagnostic facility”, in China, he just sent me a free new controller [but no gasket]) possibly by accident due to the poor soldering skills I had then (much improved since! ). It had done 1200-ish miles by then, and despite Bafang's touting of "Uprated Mosfets", my controller may have been dying anyway, but I'm fairly certain I killed it with my inept soldering efforts. Please do keep us updated as to the reliability, performance, ongoing details of temperatures and temperature mods of your marvellous motorised cargo conveyance! Will you be using it much in winter?

 

[potato]

I'm convinced.. for the sake of a tenner and a bit of easy disassembly I've ordered some 2mm thermal pads + paste.

Extra chain arrived today, so the drivetrain refresh is complete, indexing checked, vlcd wiring tidied up, so it's just replacing the ill fitting original bullet connectors from battery to motor with soldered connections + heatshrink to go.

Of course I might just have a quick test ride first just to check it's all working

I probably won't be stressing this motor too much.. whilst I'm not the lightest rider, I'm normally around 90kg, add another 12k to the back to account for child + their stuff and that'll be the typical load. Pedal assisted as well.

Short sharp climbs are the order of the day on the typical journey - quarter mile efforts going up to 12%

 

[peter.c]

Just had a tsdz2 main shaft snap on the drive side at the circlip groove
another design fault **** steel and a deep cut also 8mm hole drilled past the circlip

 

[guerney]

Just had a tsdz2 main shaft snap on the drive side at the circlip groove
another design fault **** steel and a deep cut also 8mm hole drilled past the circlip

Well that's horrifying. Did it happen in the middle of nowhere? Re design: A lot of force for a small area of metal? How long have you had your Tong? Does that bike carry a lot of weight?

 

[peter.c]

Total nightmare had sold the bike on
Total sphere thread has riders on 3 replacement shafts

 

[guerney]

Total nightmare had sold the bike on
Total sphere thread has riders on 3 replacement shafts

I think I'll stick to BBS01b and pay the mosfet tax...

 

[peter.c]

No more tsdz2 for me only bbs02 from now on and purchased from the uk

 

[Nealh]

It is a known issue, on ES the guys reckon there is not enough shaft support so some have added one or two extra bearings on to the shaft.

 

[guerney]

It is a known issue, on ES the guys reckon there is not enough shaft support so some have added one or two extra bearings on to the shaft.

Does that work? Or it could be caused by work hardening over time, through twisting force applied, leading to a snap at the groove? Or perhaps the metal is too stiff, or thin?