Kona Ute conversion - must be bought from Amazon…

[geordieracer]

Hello all; I’ve been recommended the expertise of this forum for my latest bike related conundrum!
I have a Kona Ute longtail bike; that with the arrival of child number 2 later in the year I would like to convert to an electric assist. The bike is the size 18 inch frame - which I know can cause problems with battery fitting.

Whilst I am fairly capable with regards to bike maintenance, I am grossly inexperienced with the world of e bikes:

I was recommended a Bafang set up; the BBSO2B 48v 750w with down tube battery but actually I have no idea-if this is suitable for a cargo bike!

The giant spanner in the works is that it has to be purchased via Amazon as I have a large sum of vouchers that I’d like to use.

if anyone has done this conversion or can out and out and out tell me what to Any and all advise gratefully received!

Cheers!

 

[Nealh]

My Cargo bike build. | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

This is my Ute which is my current trailer tower for the big stuff I need.
The TSdz2 TS drive is a lot better then the BBS simpr rotation cadence drive, TSdz2 is even very managable with no power and a heavy trailer. My tsdz2 is 250w 14a run off a diy 44v battery using quality 21700 cells.

You will have to make a card mock up to see if any batteyr will fit the triangle or it is likely one may be abe to fit a silverfish type behind the seat post .
For simplicity in my case my lightweight battery sits on the rear deck with velco ties.

I remember when I had the BBS and I ran out of battery some 10 miles or so from home , never would I try riing with no power again boy what a hard slog that was. Worse the riding with the back brake stuck on.

 

[guerney]

The giant spanner in the works is that it has to be purchased via Amazon as I have a large sum of vouchers that I’d like to use.

It's very annoying that Amazon gift vouchers can't be turned into cash. I bought my BBS01B kit from a seller on Amazon, and despite his assurances before purchase that he had "Many repair facilities in the EU", I had to send a controller I'd killed within the warranty period to China at my cost (three weeks near the end), because that's where his "Diagnostic facility" was. Why those facilities aren't in the same places I don't know. He sent me a free controller, plus a 52T chainwheel free because he only had 48T atthe time of purchase. Otherwise, great kit and conversion, and knowledgeable seller: IEBIKE:

Amazon.co.uk Seller Profile: IEBIKE

I'd deffo pay more for non-Chinese celled battery options. It later transpired my battery contained LG MH1 cells, which @Nealh correctly identified by capacity and number of cells in the pack, and said they are decent quality. I messaged the seller via his Amazon seller profile page before purchase, to establish whether he had any stock in the EU, and my kit was received within 5 days from Germany, a few days before Brexit.

My converted folding bike (Dahon Helios P8) hauls heavy bike trailers up steep hills well, but my wheels are only 20" and I don't weigh much anymore. Your converted bike's mileage and hill haulage ability may vary.

I was recommended a Bafang set up; the BBSO2B 48v 750w

I don't know that going the illegal route with 750W is necessary.

I remember when I had the BBS and I ran out of battery some 10 miles or so from home , never would I try riing with no power again boy what a hard slog that was. Worse the riding with the back brake stuck on.

That's only happened to me once so far, no trailer that time. After I ran out of 24 hour garage sugar stops, I walked it for the uphill sections, which were impossible to ascend despite bing heavily caffeinated, plus excessive blood sugaring. Even slight inclines became a struggle. Bloody hard getting home that night, luckily it was only about 4.5 miles.

 

[Az.]

Battery can be mounted in many places. I have attached it to Topeak pannier rack at the back.

Mid drive motor is most difficult to install option and also most expensive. It is great for off road, but if you plan to cycle on roads then front or rear hubs are more than OK.

750W is three times more than allowed by law limit of 250W. Do you plan to travel with your little child?

 

[Bikes4two]

@geordieracer - before deciding on either a a Bafang BBSxx or TSDZ2 motor, be sure you understand the different ride characteristics each will give you; Bafang is 'cadence assist' whilst the Tong Sheng is 'torque assist'.

 

[guerney]

Mid drive motor is most difficult to install option

For me at least, BBS01B conversion was easy. Removing my bike's bottom bracket was the hard part, because it had seized with galvanic corrosion and it took hours of hammering. Otherwise, a couple of hours at most to install the kit.

 

[Bikes4two]

Mid drive motor is most difficult to install option and also most expensive......

More involved that fitting a hub motor maybe, but certainly not what I'd describe as difficult.
The trickiest part is likely to be the rerouting of any gear cables that go under the bottom bracket.

And at £215 for a TSDZ2 36v 250w is not a deal breaker either.

 

[Nealh]

Mid drive once the BB is removed is usually simple , the only caveat is a little fettling of the internal shell may be needed to remove some over weld ridges . Other wise straight forward , chain line may be an issue.

Hubs aren't always straight fwd, wheels may need trueing and centralising/dishing.
A lot of drop outs aren't suited for a larger 12 x 10 axle and certainly not the 14 x 10 used on the illlegal hubs so fettling of the drop out is required. Many have simple issues with wiring and PAS .

All in all it dpeneds on ones ability to thinks things out.

 

[Az.]

For me at least, BBS01B conversion was easy. Removing my bike's bottom bracket was the hard part, because it had seized with galvanic corrosion and it took hours of hammering.

How hammering bb for few hours is easier than removing front wheel?
Front, rear hub and mid drive conversions all have their pros and cons.

And at £215 for a TSDZ2 36v 250w is not a deal breaker either.

Could you post a link please?

 

[guerney]

How hammering bb for few hours is easier than removing front wheel?

Good point... I have observed that nearly all the conversions I've seen on this forum start with much cooler donor bikes than mine, which was manufactured in April 2006. Galvanic corrosion? Not half!

And at £215 for a TSDZ2 36v 250w is not a deal breaker either.

Gawds for a second you almost tempted me, but then I recalled all those mods

 

[Bikes4two]

Could you post a link please?

The price fluctuates day to day - yesterday when my friend ordered one it was £215 (honest ) today its another £6 - from PSWPower HERE - delivery of the 5 previous orders I and friends have made has typically been about 4 working days.

 

[Az.]

Good point... I have observed that nearly all the conversions I've seen on this forum start with much cooler donor bikes than mine, which was manufactured in April 2006. Galvanic corrosion?

BB is like a pandora box. You never know what is there without opening. The older bike the worse it could get of course. It is doable of course, but hub motors are easier to install. That all what I was saying,

The price fluctuates day to day - yesterday when my friend ordered one it was £215 (honest )

Hmmm... you got me excited for a moment. Looks like certain Chinese site... £220 is not a deal breaker for me, but buying things from China is. I have two electric bikes already, so bb conversion can wait a bit.

 

[Bikes4two]

...... Looks like certain Chinese site... £220 is not a deal breaker for me, but buying things from China is. ......

Fair enough but PSWPower is used successfully by many people - the problem comes if you for some reason wanted to return something - not sure how that'd work?

From my perspective I wasn't interested in a 12m warranty and never anticipated that I'd be looking to return anything as I was happy to fix any issues myself.

I have had to change out my controller which stopped working shortly after trying out a new version of OSF (and I don't think it was the fault of the OSF but a bit of a flacky download dongle possibly corrupting the download). The job was straight forward as is any aspect of repair.

At the end of the day we each have to do what we're comfortable with and those who purchase from the likes of Woosh can be assured of a first class customer service.

 

[Nealh]

Is that UK deleivered price or as I expect there is 20% on top as well so bringing it to about £270//£275.

 

[AndyBike]

A lot of development money going into Ebikes these days.

Photon | cycmotor

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[guerney]

BB is like a pandora box. You never know what is there without opening. The older bike the worse it could get of course. It is doable of course, but hub motors are easier to install.

If it hadn't been for the stuck BB plus about an hour of fitting the battery to the rear rack, using a piece of lightweight and rot-proof pallet wood (which I still haven't got around to replacing with the shiny new box aluminium I purchased some months ago, because the pallet wood works so well [it's hidden as is the battery, by two hi-viz waterproof rucksack covers], and well... I'm lazy), quite honestly the rest would have taken me less than an hour, if I'd converted a more ideal normal newer bike. There's nothing weird, nothing protuding, no cable routing through the Helios' BB, so otherwise an easy peasy BBS01B conversion.

I wish I'd removed the BB well ahead of time, to look for potential problems.

 

[Bikes4two]

Is that UK deleivered price or as I expect there is 20% on top as well so bringing it to about £270//£275.

That is the UK delivered price - when you order the motor from Germany for dispatch to the UK, the seller's displayed price includes VAT and delivery charges.

That's the way it was when I bought my motors back in Oct '21 and I've just rung the guy who ordered a few days ago and it is still that way now.

At that price it's almost treating a purchase as buying in some spares - I've a good mind to try that and fit one to a second bike just in case when I stroll down to the bike shed to get ready for a ride, I find I've suffered a slow puncture overnight (and that has happened a number of times over the years).

 

[guerney]

What's the combined cost of the kit plus mods, cables etc? The BBS01B doesn't have the blue gear melting problem, or the axle snapping problem, or the high Q pedal factor, likelyhood of unflashable controller possibility etc, for about £100 (not including cost of TSDZ2 mods) more. If I converetd a second bike with BBS01B, I'd have spares to hand, would be assured of swift repair of one kit with the other. What stops me doing this for now, or converting with a hub, is that I need to get my blood pressure down (discovered yesterday it's back up, after exercise and weight loss improved matters) using exercise, therefore I may decide to make one lightweight bike and keep that unelectrified - if the option for electrical assistance is available on a bike, I'll use it.

 

[Bikes4two]

What's the combined cost of the kit plus mods, cables etc? The BBS01B doesn't have the blue gear melting problem, or the axle snapping problem, or the high Q pedal factor, likelyhood of unflashable controller possibility.

I can guess where you've read of such problems but I wonder if for each incidence of failure you can deduce exactly how the bike/motor was being ridden and by whom.
> Blue Gear Melting - not a problem for me - after 5,500Km I had a look to check a short while ago and no noticeable wear let alone melting
> Axle Snapping - again no. Some of the threads I've read about this have been with the elongated axles that are required for some frames. And of course some of these motors get used in high power modes and in mountain bikes where a lot of time riders may be out of the saddle doing jumps. I'm a leisure cyclist on roads - just a 100 miles a week or so when the sun is out.
> High Q - so I've heard. I rode my TSDZ2 with the OEM supplied cranks and then tried a pair of Bafang ones that apparently give a lower Q factor - it didn't feel any different to me and I seriously wonder if the average cyclist would detect the difference let alone know what Q factor is all about.
> unflashable controller - fair point as some newer supplied motors have a different micro-controller that won't work with OSF. And is OSF compatible with the new TSDZ2B? - I don't know and nobody has as yet posted anything o ES about this.

Another stick that gets thrown at the TSDZ2 is overheating. Well, I rode my machine (250w) throughout last year's heatwaves and the motor never even got beyond hand warm (and the internally mounted temperature strips I put in there didn't even flinch). Now clearly from the postings on ES, there are those who have overheat problems. Unfortunately in those posts you can't tell if the motor was being pushed hard (e.g 52v, 750w and or in TURBO mode) or being ridden in higher temperatures than the UK. So until someone in the UK riding a 250w motor at 36v or 48v comes along with an overheat problem, I'm comfortable in saying that it aint a problem for legl powered motors here in the UK.

I do understand though that Torque Assist motors are not maybe the best choice for those wanting/needing their ebike to do most of the pedalling work for them.

 

[Nealh]

The tsdz2 is quite good as it has four PAS modes and if you count Hybrid mode then five pedal assist modes.