Koga Miyata Very Pretty, Very Expensive!

[Cyclezee]

Just been drooling, sorry I mean looking @ Koga-Miyata - The Quality People In Cycling - Collection 2008 - Electric Hybrid - Tesla-S (G)

A very pretty, to my eyes, range of pedelecs from this Dutch company and looks like a build quality to match
Performance, who knows, just drop dead gorgeous
But at a price

John

 

[flecc]

This one keeps cropping up, someone posted it again a short while ago. Kinetics do them in the UK, but I'm not going to ask them how much.

Certainly very pretty, but I don't like in-frame batteries, too restrictive, no quick turnaround with a second charged battery or carrying a second battery for a long trip.

That spoils it for me, but I certainly applaud the quality of the bike side. It's good to see some really good quality e-bikes at last as we are now doing.
.

 

[tgame]

People seem to be anxious that others should not notice they have a powered bike. I shall carry my battery proudly I must say. This business of "image" is most strange. A neighbour who really badly needs a disabled buggy which would enrich his whole life, won't get one for fear of losing face.

 

[mk1]

Koga do make some nice bikes, although they are I think slightly overbuilt and consequently quite heavy, the non powered ones I mean.
Does anyone know what type of hub motor they use? I notice it is rear wheel drive.

Martin

 

[flecc]

It looks like the direct drive one that in the Sparta, also Dutch. If so, the motor is not too good on hills, one test describing it as only able to drag it's own weight up a 1 in 5, leaving the rest to the rider.

If I'm right, probably best on flat or gently rolling terrain. A to B in an area that fits that description liked the Sparta.
.

 

[Jeremy]

I take the point about not looking liking an ebike, but many would see this as a real plus point. As I mentioned before, the majority seem to prefer not looking different, so something like this is exactly what's needed, in my view, to encourage more people on to two wheels.

It's a real shame about the price though, as it's way out of proportion to the performance of the bike.

The charging thing would be a non-issue for the majority of newcomers to electric cycling, I'm sure. I cannot see the need to remove my battery from the bike, as I'm never likely to ride further than about 75% of the pack capacity in any day. I appreciate that some may well ride long distance, but if the aim is to get more people onto bikes by making them look more "normal" then I doubt that daily range is a real issue. Hill climbing performance may well be though!

Jeremy

 

[flecc]

Quite true Jeremy, the battery is probably only an issue with some of us in this forum, not the mainstream public who mostly wouldn't commute long distances or would just use it to go to the shops.
.

 

[Branwen]

People seem to be anxious that others should not notice they have a powered bike.

My main worry is that an electric bike looks like an attractively expensive item to prospective thieves...

 

[simonbarnett]

Theft risk may be one reason to disguise e-bikes but I wouldn't discount image. Pedal bicycles are good looking machines and the usual electric solution of a big battery behind the frame is not to everyone's taste.

I'm probably the person Flecc remembers asking about the Koga. There's also the cheaper Izip at £1260 or so if you like montain bike looks. The big obstacle (apart from lack of test info) which Flecc identified is the poor outdoor charging in cold weather; ie if you can't bring it in and the batteries are stuck in the frame. Shame, as conventional looking e-bikes might widen the market.

I think the Kalkhoff battery appears smaller/better than some and the reviews are persuasive, so it's probably an Agutta or a Pro-Connect for me.
Are the frame sizes measured from the top of the tube (without the seat post) to the middle of the crank? I only ask because current bike measures 49cm there and always feels a bit high, though I'm not short at 5' 11'' but that's a ''small frame'' on the Kalkhoff.

Secondly, is the pro-Connect worth the extra for it's lightness or should I have a crossbarred Agutta for city commuting?

 

[flecc]

Yes, that's the measure Simon, but the Kalkhoffs seem a bit big, in part due to the sprung seatpost which adds quite a lot to the height, and also it's good ground clearance under the crankcase.

I think the Pro-Connect's value is mainly image, since 3 kilos or so isn't going to make a dramatic difference against the overall weight of bike and rider, especially if the riding is mainly on the flat where weight has no effect.

It could make a difference if someone had to hump it up some steps of course.
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[jimmyengland1000]

Isn't this bike a bit heavy at 26.5kg though? Also, yet again, it's an e-bike trying to look like a 'normal' bike by disguising the battery.

Actually, I disagree that "most people" don't want to stand out from the crowd. Try telling that to Ferrari, Lambourghini, Rolls Royce drivers and most motorcyclists. Personally, I'd love a radically designed e-bike that revels in its e-bike nature and doesn't try to pretend it's an old push bike. Hence loving the Matra Sports...!!

 

[flecc]

Isn't this bike a bit heavy at 26.5kg though? Also, yet again, it's an e-bike trying to look like a 'normal' bike by disguising the battery.

I think in this case it's just the Dutch following their usual design preference for a short upright bike. Their Sparta Ion has exactly the same Dutch Roadster proportions, and the Giant New Twist, designed primarily for the Dutch market, follows the same pattern, in their case mounting the batteries as panniers to keep the short upright Dutch style.

Equally, they don't worry about weight with their steepest hills being the ferry ramps, so high weight is common in their designs, which value strength and longevity more.
.

 

[musicbooks]

Are the frame sizes measured from the top of the tube (without the seat post) to the middle of the crank? I only ask because current bike measures 49cm there and always feels a bit high, though I'm not short at 5' 11'' but that's a ''small frame'' on the Kalkhoff.

Does this mean that at 5' 8"..(when my wife tells me to stand up straight!)and inside leg 30inches, my tiny Scottish pins will barely reach the ground on the 49cm model?
musicbooks

 

[Jeremy]

The "most people don't want to stand out from the crowd" comment was based on looking at cars. Look at how incredibly similar the vast majority of cars look, my guess is that the marketeers have worked out that the mass market really isn't very adventurous. Sure, there are the odd-ball designs that stand out, but they are in the minority and don't sell in the millions.

I have no problem with riding something unusual (my 'bent attracts enough attention!) but my wife wouldn't want a bike that didn't look "normal".

As noted elsewhere, we're all individuals, so will have different ideas of what's right.

Jeremy

 

[flecc]

Does this mean that at 5' 8"..(when my wife tells me to stand up straight!)and inside leg 30inches, my tiny Scottish pins will barely reach the ground on the 49cm model?
musicbooks

I think you'll probably be ok. I reckon I'd just about manage to ride the 49 cm at 5' 6" and 28.5 inside leg, but I'm happy with just toes down, and never aim to get a foot flat on the ground while seated on the saddle. Doing that often means very bent leg pedalling which isn't very efficient.
.

 

[simonbarnett]

Same issue as mine- we share the same 30'' inside leg- if you see what I mean! The answer may be to get a 49cm with suspension post but swap to rigid seatpost if you really can't reach. Or maybe take a 53cm (if Flecc just fits a suspended 49cm but is a about 4cm shorter in the leg) and go for the rigid from the start? It reduces seat height by 5cm max but must have a fair adjustment upwards and has anyone ever been convinced by merits of suspended seat posts? Surely 50Cycles can tell us the best solution, apart from a trip to Loughborough??

 

[simonbarnett]

If 26kg is too much but you like the idea of a push bike look, have a look at the Izip 2007 Trekking LI - www.all-about-the-home.co.uk- make sure you view the expensive one at £1258. It's 20kg and every inch a mountain bike in appearance.

Maybe people generally only like to look different if it reflects good design or some perceived class, eg the cars you cite.

My old Ducati Monster used to turn heads when it was novel and radical but now they're mainstream, though still pretty. I swapped to a big BMW flat twin bike with weird suspension- no-one liked its looks except me. Many e-bikes look rather ugly with a big battery and all I'm trying to say is they won't have wide appeal, beyond afficionados who know their inner beauty. There should be a wider market for these push bike lookalikes if they can overcome cold weather outdoor charging and cost.

 

[flecc]

I'm hopeful of getting my hands (legs?) on a 49 cm Pro-Connect in February and will be able to give a further judgement then. That has a rigid seatpost of course

 

[simonbarnett]

Thanks-sounds like an Agutta crossbar should do. Just got to sort frame size now- see other posts.

 

[coops]

Hi Simon

have a look at the Izip 2007 Trekking LI

Well I did & frankly I'm puzzled but it looks like its rather misleading, on a number of other sites too: where's the battery? I can't see that they could have fitted even the 24V 10Ah phylion battery some of their other models have in the tubing, and for the quoted range it must realistically use the two batteries suggested (but not clear) in the specs - 24V 10Ah and 12.2Ah, which suggests they've omitted to show the rear rack & two pannier style batteries, which would otherwise spoil the clean lines a bit, and the weight given I suspect may also be not including batteries (which would add about 5kg) given that their lightest 24V 10Ah bikes are 22kg. Either that or the frame must be very light, around 10-11kg only.

So more like 25kg & 2 batteries on a rear rack I think.

No info on the izipUSA site/pdf's to clarify it either, in fact they're not showing that model at all currently, only 2008 models.

Either way, if the batteries are rear-mounted, I think you could pretty much build your own equivalent bike, on a frame of your choice, for rather less than that price (though maybe not with two li batteries)?

Stuart.