khalkhoff latest pedelec system

[Robint]

Hi Guys
I was explaining the benefits of a proper e-bike (not mickey mouse hub rubbish) and offered to send him the link to 50 Cycles.
Then I realised I was so out of touch with the latest developments. My Agattu is coming up to its 7th birthday and still going strong. Can anyone tell me how the new Impulse II compares with the Panasonic 24v 10Ah original.
I seem to remember there were to be improvements in the cadence/torque control? As we know the assisted torque varies drastically from where the pedals are in the crank cycle (ie 12 oc & 6 oc= min, vs 3 oc & 9oc =max). This can be dangerous for the newbie if going up a steep hill with the wrong gear preselected. You come to a sudden stop and can be thrown off - I know. But you come to terms with this as you develop your skill

So I thought there was to be a torque leveller to even out this problem. Anyone know?

50 C is a lot more coy about how much information they choose to disclose on their site

 

[trex]

Hi Guys
I was explaining the benefits of a proper e-bike (not mickey mouse hub rubbish) ...

you may upset half of the membership who ride hub bikes.

 

[JohnCade]

Hi Guys
I was explaining the benefits of a proper e-bike (not mickey mouse hub rubbish) and offered to send him the link to 50 Cycles.
Then I realised I was so out of touch with the latest developments. My Agattu is coming up to its 7th birthday and still going strong. Can anyone tell me how the new Impulse II compares with the Panasonic 24v 10Ah original.
I seem to remember there were to be improvements in the cadence/torque control? As we know the assisted torque varies drastically from where the pedals are in the crank cycle (ie 12 oc & 6 oc= min, vs 3 oc & 9oc =max). This can be dangerous for the newbie if going up a steep hill with the wrong gear preselected. You come to a sudden stop and can be thrown off - I know. But you come to terms with this as you develop your skill

So I thought there was to be a torque leveller to even out this problem. Anyone know?

50 C is a lot more coy about how much information they choose to disclose on their site

The Impulse allows more cadence while still giving power than the Panasonic I believe. It will produce max power up to around 80rpm I think then tails off. The torque multiplication is a lot more too. I’ve never really noticed the effect you mention but they do suggest a smooth constant pedal action in the manual which I tend to do anyway.

That full power is only up to a certain speed and is governed by the software in higher gears approaching the cut off speed. Then tapers off giving a very smooth and almost imperceptible transition to no power at just over 17mph.

 

[flecc]

The Impulse is far more powerful than your Panasonic unit. I've uploaded two Kalkhoff documents to my website from where you can read or download them using the two links below. Both documents are old but contain much of what you need that is still current. If your internet connection is slow, just view the first one since the second is very large as shown:

2.25 mb Presentation

36.5 mb Manual
.

 

[Robint]

you may upset half of the membership who ride hub bikes.

No offence intended. I just had bad experience with an E Go bought cheap off Ebay (though virtually brand new). It was nasty in so many ways compared to my Khalkhoff. So I am spoilt.

 

[Robint]

The Impulse is far more powerful than your Panasonic unit. I've uploaded two Kalkhoff documents to my website from where you can read or download them using the two links below. Both documents are old but contain much of what you need that is still current. If your internet connection is slow, just view the first one since the second is very large as shown:

2.25 mb Presentation

36.5 mb Manual
.

Thanx big time, will take some time to study relevant parts and revert with informed comment

 

[selrahc1992]

No offence intended. I just had bad experience with an E Go bought cheap off Ebay (though virtually brand new). It was nasty in so many ways compared to my Khalkhoff. So I am spoilt.

if you don't mind me asking, what went wrong with the ego? its similar (identical I think) to a Tesco hopper, which at £300 seemed a cheap solution? I haven't tried it but thought it might do as an electric version of a hack bike

 

[Robint]

In a related vein, has anyone noticed how a degraded Lion battery pack performs? Mine 10 Ah 24v on my agattu is 7 years years old and I guess down to 50% capacity (I havent done a distance run yet, having only just got back up on my bike after a 2 year gap recovering from hip ops). during that time I left it on its charger and it held 100% (all 5 bars). I did unplug it for 6 weeks and it still held 5 bars - amazing - vs LAB)
Anyway my point being that when doing a short run up a very shallow gradient, I had to use full power as I didnt seem to be getting full assist as I remembered it. Also the torque variations were quite noticeable. Now this may be ascribed to my lack of fitness but it puzzled me. It was like the battery could no longer supply full current (such as you get with an old LAB). The handlebar capacity indicator didn't show any drop in volts.

I know its time to fork out for a new battery £700, I've had my money's worth, or should I be considering a new Impulse machine ca 2k

 

[Robint]

if you don't mind me asking, what went wrong with the ego? its similar (identical I think) to a Tesco hopper, which at £300 seemed a cheap solution? I haven't tried it but thought it might do as an electric version of a hack bike

 

[trex]

...
I've had my money's worth, or should I be considering a new Impulse machine ca 2k

yes to a new bike. Although you could get a replacement battery from Germany or buy a replacement 24V cellpack from China for much less.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24v-25-2v-17-6ah-e-bike-li-ion-battery-black-new-SAMSUNG-cell-/221863044361

 

[Robint]

Well I got mine as a back up for £100, but wish I hadn't bothered. I had been spoilt with my Khalkhoff but that was 5x the Tesco price. I strongly recommend that you test ride one of these before buying and see if you can managed the quirky front hub drive plus derailleurs. The power is delivered in response to crank speed only not torque. Its coarse and no good for low speed manoeuvring - like on pavements. I disabled it and used it in twist-go mode

If you only wanted to do short trips on flat roads - well? So why bother with an e-bike (they are heavy 20kgs) so not luggable even though they fold up.

Get a Viking 6G shimano ordinary folder, instead (11kgs) ca £150, good value and its my back up of choice

 

[flecc]

I know its time to fork out for a new battery £700, I've had my money's worth, or should I be considering a new Impulse machine ca 2k

The danger of buying a new battery at £700 for your 7 year old Panasonic unit bike is the possibility of the motor unit subsequently failing. We have had a small number of these older units failing. A you probably know, there is no repair for these, when they go it's a new unit at circa £500 plus fitting. There's also the factor that you aren't certain it is the battery that's the problem, it could be £700 wasted.

So you can end up spending £1200 or much more on a seven years or older e-bike.

You would find the Impulse unit bike a revelation in terms of capability, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'd like it, the way these various crank power units deliver power can be very different and personal preference is the most important factor of all in choosing an e-bike. Therefore I'd advise you go to one of the four outlets and try riding one first, that's well worth the effort and expense. That could also help you make your mind up whether to change the bike or just investigate if buying the new battery for the old one solves the old bike's problem.
.

 

[Robint]

yes to a new bike. Although you could get a replacement battery from Germany or buy a replacement 24V cellpack from China for much less.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24v-25-2v-17-6ah-e-bike-li-ion-battery-black-new-SAMSUNG-cell-/221863044361

WOW £279 for 20 Ah 26volt (vs £700 from 50 C)

Thats more like it. Has anyone been down this route? Do I need a new charger as well

 

[Robint]

The danger of buying a new battery at £700 for your 7 year old Panasonic unit bike is the possibility of the motor unit subsequently failing. We have had a small number of these older units failing. A you probably know, there is no repair for these, when they go it's a new unit at circa £500 plus fitting. There's also the factor that you aren't certain it is the battery that's the problem, it could be £700 wasted.

So you can end up spending £1200 or much more on a seven years or older e-bike.

You would find the Impulse unit bike a revelation in terms of capability, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'd like it, the way these various crank power units deliver power can be very different and personal preference is the most important factor of all in choosing an e-bike. Therefore I'd advise you go to one of the four outlets and try riding one first, that's well worth the effort and expense. That could also help you make your mind up whether to change the bike or just investigate if buying the new battery for the old one solves the old bike's problem.
.

Yes indeed - sound advice. You really can't afford to be parsimonious with an e bike (not like you can with a push bike).
7/8 years ago the market was struggling to recover from a shaky period of rubbish nicad hub motor imports from the far east. They were grossly overhyped and underperformed in distance. Then came a quality pedelec crank drive which started a revolution. I haven't for a moment regretted £1500 and the KA has been a godsend with my hilly area and encroaching arthritis. Indeed the 50C forum inviting user comments abounded with seemingly honest praise from 100's different sources

 

[trex]

there are plenty of good bikes now.
I wonder if there is a need to pay £2k for a good machine any more.
I am seriously considering to hit the buy button on this one (£1400 delivered):
http://www.mhw-bike.com/haibike-sduro-hardseven-sl-27.5-400wh-36v-grau-lime-matt-2015-3536

The reason for the hesitation is because I wanted to know if one could fit a full size chainguard on this bike.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi Guys
I was explaining the benefits of a proper e-bike (not mickey mouse hub rubbish) and offered to send him the link to 50 Cycles.

How can we take you seriously, when you apparently condemn all hub-motors on the basis of your experience with the cheapest, most basic, minimalistic control system electric bike that it's possible to buy? Did you not think that if you spent the same money on a hub-motored bike as your Kalkhoff, you might have a different opinion? Did you try the Kalkhoffs with the Xion hub-motor or the KTM with the Panasonic hub-motor?

 

[Robint]

I did a quick estimate of the probably mileage I covered through my 7 year period - 7500, not much but regular 5 mile bursts, hardly ever got below 4 bar , battery on charge after use, a few times down to 3 bar. Still works ok apart from obvious battery issue as I must have topped it up at least 1000 times and they are only rated for 500 from 50%. So I can't complain no maintenance to speak - 1 set brake blocks

BUT if I write off the existing bike it works out at 20p/mile. I daresay with commuter use it would drop to around 10p/mile (push bike 1p/mile?)

 

[Robint]

there are plenty of good bikes now.
I wonder if there is a need to pay £2k for a good machine any more.
I am seriously considering to hit the buy button on this one (£1400 delivered):
http://www.mhw-bike.com/haibike-sduro-hardseven-sl-27.5-400wh-36v-grau-lime-matt-2015-3536

The reason for the hesitation is because I wanted to know if one could fit a full size chainguard on this bike.

Is 250W legal in UK (snigger)
Looks like suitable for MTB use, but derailleurs for in town use
My KA uses Shimano 8sp hub and it swift and smooth as clockwork. I found with an e bike that you shoot up and down the rack much more often, to even out the torque/speed and maintain the optimum cadence 60rpm i think? On touring this is probably not an issue, but for town work?

The only info on the Yamaha Mittel is all in german I found

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Is 250W legal in UK (snigger)

In case you've misunderstood, 400Wh is the capacity of the battery, nothing to do with the power of the motor, which is 250W.

 

[Robint]

In case you've misunderstood, 400Wh is the capacity of the battery, nothing to do with the power of the motor, which is 250W.

Yes understood. I was referring to the uk regs which said that power was limited to 200W, apparently we are now in line with the EU at 250W, shows how out of date I am.