That wouldn't happen, we've actually got some members who have never bought an electric and stick to normal bikes. They just like to keep an eye on the scene and follow progress.
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OOOh God! I was happy with my Agattu until i saw this, i've been lusting after a racer for fun and now i see this.....From the model I saw at 50C, it wont be alone for long. They had the 2009 'sports' version of the Pro-Connect as a demo bike which I was lucky enough to try out. It looks and feels very like the Cytronex (except obviously with a Panasonic Motor) with a very light thin frame, Road tyres, derrailiuer gears, and it probably weighed about 14-15Kg. It was very fast, I'd start saving now then John if I were you
New Kalkhoff
Any pictures of the bike?OOOh God! I was happy with my Agattu until i saw this, i've been lusting after a racer for fun and now i see this.....
I don’t think any of you guys should get too excited about the “sporty” Kalkholl yet. I also saw it at Presteigne, in fact I think it was entered in the hill climb…… The frame looked like a standard Pro-Connect to me. It had a high quality SRAM rear derailleur and quality rims, but I can’t see Kalkhoff sourcing components of that quality for a production bike under 2 grand. The rear cassette was 9 speed (I think) – probably 13 up. With a single chainring, this will give a somewhat smaller spread of gears than the Shimano Nexus hub - and I don’t think you could fit a double/triple chainring to the Panasonic system (Flecc?). I now find the range of gears on the Cytronex (which has triple chainrings) a real advantage in these hils.OOOh God! I was happy with my Agattu until i saw this, i've been lusting after a racer for fun and now i see this.....
Still, if Sporty Kalkhoff is on the horizon, I’m sure 50 cycles will tell us. Perhaps it will have a sister bike called posh.
Sorry I should have taken a pic - D'oh!!!
I dont think its the one from Presteigne Chris, I was at Presteigne for both days and I didnt see this there, so I think this was something quite new. The frame was nothing like my Pro-Connect, as it was very very thin, and the bike had a straight handlebar with bar ends. It was very sporty with road wheels, tyres and geometry, I think exactly in the same vein as the Cytronex except for the main difference being the motor and the way the power is applied (which will make the bike have very different aspects to the Cytronex).
Lloyd kindly pointed out the Presteigne bike that was used, still covered in mud in the shop commenting that he had 'bled' for that bike.
I didnt count the gears but I think there was only 1 cassette, my main focus was on a small framed bike for my wife as it was important to me to have 2 bikes with interchangeable batteries and chargers (should one ever break down and have to be sent off I need to stay on the road for work).
When (and if ever) available, I bet it will be an instant hit, just like the Pro-Connect and the Cytronex.
John
I dont think its the one from Presteigne Chris, I was at Presteigne for both days and I didnt see this there, so I think this was something quite new. The frame was nothing like my Pro-Connect, as it was very very thin, and the bike had a straight handlebar with bar ends. It was very sporty with road wheels, tyres and geometry, I think exactly in the same vein as the Cytronex except for the main difference being the motor and the way the power is applied (which will make the bike have very different aspects to the Cytronex).
Lloyd kindly pointed out the Presteigne bike that was used, still covered in mud in the shop commenting that he had 'bled' for that bike.
I didnt count the gears but I think there was only 1 cassette, my main focus was on a small framed bike for my wife as it was important to me to have 2 bikes with interchangeable batteries and chargers (should one ever break down and have to be sent off I need to stay on the road for work).
When (and if ever) available, I bet it will be an instant hit, just like the Pro-Connect and the Cytronex.
John
Actually the posh has been here for some while, it's the Kalkhoff Tasman.
Chris, the chainring is a special spline mounted one on the Panasonic unit. It would be possible to have a dual or triple special, but very unlikely for two reasons. The chaindrive relationship between the motor and chainring would be changing all the time, altering the character of way the power applied and that would disrupt the riding rhythm. Also the mounting of the chainring isn't directly on the pedal shaft but on a freewheel collar with it's own bearing. I don't think that would be stable and long lasting with multi chainrings.
There is a very fast version of the Panasonic made by BikeTech, the Flyer S, where speeds in the order of 20 to 30 mph are the norm, so that's a possibility, motor and pedal based speed performance rather than pedal only based.
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Has anyone with a Panasonic powered bike considered replacing the Shimano hub with a SRAM Dual Drive? Would that not re-create the range of gears similar to a triple front chainring? What would that do to the bikes' performance?
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Yes, there are a number of owners with the SRAM DualDrive on Lafree bikes with the Xtracycle extension. It's better done that way since it gives a longer chainrun for the derailleur to work well without having to fight the idler on the Panasonic unit.
One owner I met reckons it's an ideal pairing, and William Morrison in the USA uses one of these outfits for his daily commute and runs at over 20 mph for quite a lot of the time.
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Speed
Just seen this thread so a small point about speed, which John has mentioned.
Flecc clearly has inside knowledge because I thought I was the only one who knew this, but AtoB have indeed found Cytronex to be the fastest ebike so far. I don't want to pre-empt their publication too much, but I do know the results. The 175rpm bike that John uses came ahead of all the others in the road legal category of electric bikes and not far behind the unrestricted Torq. Then they swapped the front wheel with the fast motor I supplied - I can only say that the margin was wide!
We do have the 190rpm in stock and will be selling this as an additional (it only take two minutes to swap a wheel) once we are happy with the legalities.
Regards,
Mark
Just seen this thread so a small point about speed, which John has mentioned.
Flecc clearly has inside knowledge because I thought I was the only one who knew this, but AtoB have indeed found Cytronex to be the fastest ebike so far. I don't want to pre-empt their publication too much, but I do know the results. The 175rpm bike that John uses came ahead of all the others in the road legal category of electric bikes and not far behind the unrestricted Torq. Then they swapped the front wheel with the fast motor I supplied - I can only say that the margin was wide!
We do have the 190rpm in stock and will be selling this as an additional (it only take two minutes to swap a wheel) once we are happy with the legalities.
Regards,
Mark
Could anyone hazard a guess at what sort of hill the higher RPM motor would be capable of tackling. I'm in Canterbury, so don't really have anything too severe but, it needs to be able to give reasonable assistance up relatively long, but gentle inclines.
Also Mark, by additional do you mean that the higher speed motor can't be bought as the sole motor for the bike?
Thanks
Matt
Also Mark, by additional do you mean that the higher speed motor can't be bought as the sole motor for the bike?
Thanks
Matt
That has been my experience, the 190 rpm version will lose very little in terms of speed compared to the torq. I found almost identical times when going to work, 40 mins. Not sure about the legality as it will go 17mph assisted,
I can't see that as a problem Hal. Bikes that are governed only by the speed the battery nominal voltage drives them at can be much faster with a full battery.
The Quando does 17 mph withour pedalling on a full battery initially, and hot off the charger 18 mph can be seen on the flat. The same is true of the eZee Sprint, both governed only by voltage and tending to drop towards 15 mph as the battery empties, ending up at 14 mph when the battery is on it's last legs.
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This is interesting........
Harry, if I understand it the likes of the Tongxin powered Cytronex phases down the power until at 15mph you are on your own. Am I right in thinking that you are describing a scenario where the hub motor continues to supplement the rider input at speeds above 15 mph?
I'll jump in for the moment pending HarryB being online.
The Cytronex Nano 175 rpm motor only assists to around 15 mph or a touch over. What Harry is remarking on is the fact that the Nano motor is drag free compared with other e-bike motors, enabling pedalling the bike to much higher speeds in exactly the way any unpowered bike can be. Like all hub motors, it will spin up to higher speeds off-load with the wheel lifted up, but there's little useful power there.
There's an alternative 190 rpm "off-road" motor which will run to around 17 mph or so.
The lack of drag results from the Tongxin Nano's unique roller drive and freewheel system. Other motors have geared drives, and the freewheels often only disconnect the motor, still leaving orbital gears engaged with the hub and running at all times. These can make pedalling to higher speeds more difficult.
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The Cytronex Nano 175 rpm motor only assists to around 15 mph or a touch over. What Harry is remarking on is the fact that the Nano motor is drag free compared with other e-bike motors, enabling pedalling the bike to much higher speeds in exactly the way any unpowered bike can be. Like all hub motors, it will spin up to higher speeds off-load with the wheel lifted up, but there's little useful power there.
There's an alternative 190 rpm "off-road" motor which will run to around 17 mph or so.
The lack of drag results from the Tongxin Nano's unique roller drive and freewheel system. Other motors have geared drives, and the freewheels often only disconnect the motor, still leaving orbital gears engaged with the hub and running at all times. These can make pedalling to higher speeds more difficult.
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