Kalkhoff Sahel Compact

[Nashmills]

I am very interested in getting one of these but before I push the button to order I need to know if I will be able to fit it in my car. I expect to have to lower all the seats - except for the driver's.

Can anyone tell me what the overall length of this bike is please?

 

[Tomtomato]

Hmm... A Kalkhoff Sahel bike with an Impulse II motor.

Have you check the various posts on this forum (and others) related to the reliability of such motor?

I would particularly be worried in putting that bike on a car repeatedly, with the risk of pushing/knocking the pedals/front crank in the process, which can lead to early failure/breakdown of the mid-drive Impulse 2 motor...

 

[Nashmills]

Hmm... A Kalkhoff Sahel bike with an Impulse II motor.

Have you check the various posts on this forum (and others) related to the reliability of such motor?

I would particularly be worried in putting that bike on a car repeatedly, with the risk of pushing/knocking the pedals/front crank in the process, which can lead to early failure/breakdown of the mid-drive Impulse 2 motor...

Thank you Tomtomato for your interesting/worrying reply. I'd like to get a full folder but I'm struggling to find one with a similar spec. that is actually available to buy.

 

[RobF]

The AVE MH7 is similar, 20" wheels, balloon tyres, compact frame.

But it has the Bosch motor.

I have the old model.

To 'fold', the handlebar flops down, and the forks turn 180 degrees, shortening the overall package.

Just the job for lifting in and out of a hatchback car.

You might find a new one in stock somewhere.

http://www.ebco-ebikes.co.uk/products-page/special-offer-models/ave-mh-7-special-offer-retail-price/

 

[Nashmills]

The AVE MH7 is similar, 20" wheels, balloon tyres, compact frame.

But it has the Bosch motor.

I have the old model.

To 'fold', the handlebar flops down, and the forks turn 180 degrees, shortening the overall package.

Just the job for lifting in and out of a hatchback car.

You might find a new one in stock somewhere.

http://www.ebco-ebikes.co.uk/products-page/special-offer-models/ave-mh-7-special-offer-retail-price/

View attachment 14194

Thanks for that but on reflection I think I would be best off going for a full folder.

I like the look of the BH Xenion Volt Pro but that seems to be unavailable anywhere. Does anyone have any experience of the Hercules Rob Fold F8 sold by JustEBikes?

 

[RobF]

Thanks for that but on reflection I think I would be best off going for a full folder.

I like the look of the BH Xenion Volt Pro but that seems to be unavailable anywhere. Does anyone have any experience of the Hercules Rob Fold F8 sold by JustEBikes?

The Hercules looks decent, but I take it you are aware it's £2,200 with a 400wh battery and £2,400 with a 500wh.

The folded package will still be heavy and unwieldy, but shorter, so it should be liftable into a small hatchback with the rear seats folded.

Nexus hub gears are fine, and the adjustable for height handlebar stem could be a benefit.

http://justebikes.co.uk/products/hercules-f8-folding-electric-bike/

 

[Croxden]

Thanks for that but on reflection I think I would be best off going for a full folder.

I like the look of the BH Xenion Volt Pro but that seems to be unavailable anywhere. Does anyone have any experience of the Hercules Rob Fold F8 sold by JustEBikes?

I too fancied the BH folder till I tried one, well just in the shop. It was enough to tell it was not for me.

You must go and ride some bikes till the right one shows itself.

 

[SteveRuss]

You won't be allowed to buy a Kalkhoff Impulse 2.0 motor on here as they have been sentenced to death by at least one forumite after having had a bad overall experience.

There have been a number of people reporting issues with failing motors (clacking noises) so there is an issue although 50 Cycles (and presumably Derby cycles) have said that it's from a batch of 2013/2014 motors. Whether this is totally true or not we can't ever really know. They claim that a software update will stop the potential damage occurring and that people caught outside of warranty will have their motors refurbished. I don't think anyone on here has heard of that being put in to practice yet though.

However, nobody appears to have any percentage figures as to how many motors are still fine and how many have failed since they were first released, so the issue may be being unfairly amplified on here. Anyone reading any of the threads on the subject could rightfully think it's happening to everyone. I would therefore do some of your own research as to whether this was an isolated problem or not.

I have the impulse motor and am close to 3,000 miles on mine with no issues so far. I accept that may change as I have a 2014 model with that motor but until it does, I can't say anything bad about them. If it does fail, i'll be printing out the statement from 50 Cycles and taking it down for a refurbished motor.

 

[Tomtomato]

We will indeed never know the actual extent of the faults of Impulse 2 motors. Neither Kalkhoff or 50 Cycles would admit that it's a widespread issue, due to the related liability. I guess it could also depend on usage. Maybe people cycling at 10mph for 2 hours each week-end on flat paths will never have an issue.

If only a couple of people were complaining about motor failures, then yes, it could be seen as being partial. However, feel free to search on Google on German, French or Dutch websites for other user stories, or on this forum.

Also, I believe the issue is probably under-representated online, due to the typical profile of a Kalkhoff buyer (won't be a 20-year old, with no disposable income, which would be more likely to be vocal online).

If the motor replacements were fixing issues, then it would be less of an inconvenience, but several people (including me) had also failures on new replacement motors, meaning that the issue has not been resolved by the manufacturer.

If your motor does fail at some point, and you experience the "unique" aftersale service from 50 Cycles, I am sure your perception and recommendation on Kalkhoff would change.

Even if the replacement/refurbishment in or out of warranty is free, there is still inconvenience to bring the bike back to the shop, be without a bike for days or weeks, and/or be stranded miles from home without assistance, riding back home on a 25kg bike.

 

[D8ve]

Thanks for that but on reflection I think I would be best off going for a full folder.

I like the look of the BH Xenion Volt Pro but that seems to be unavailable anywhere. Does anyone have any experience of the Hercules Rob Fold F8 sold by JustEBikes?

If the Hercules is an option then what about a Brompton. It's the classic folder. And can be electrified for a reasonable price. And hold its value as well. Quite a few of the forum items have done builds recently a few beautiful jobs.

 

[SteveRuss]

We will indeed never know the actual extent of the faults of Impulse 2 motors. Neither Kalkhoff or 50 Cycles would admit that it's a widespread issue, due to the related liability.

Even if the replacement/refurbishment in or out of warranty is free, there is still inconvenience to bring the bike back to the shop, be without a bike for days or weeks, and/or be stranded miles from home without assistance, riding back home on a 25kg bike.

If it is a widespread issue then where are the figures? I know this is an issue worth discussing, and maybe one that I will become part of if i'm unlucky, but if the evidence of it being a "Widespread Issue" is only based on a number of people moaning on forums then the fallout appears small. I noticed you started another thread trying to get names of people that had suffered V2.0 motor failures and without quoting the exact number, it appeared you had got the names of around 15 people. Although i'm sure there are many more, maybe thousands more, until we know the numbers we can't come up with a real percentage.

Your second point about breaking down always worries me and more so since this issue arose but as I understand it the problem is with a clacking noise which appears not to render the bike unusable.

Although I am essentially on your side about this, and 50 Cycles have only made one comment on the problem (a badly written point at that) which is the standard hiding behind a wall affair, hoping the comments eventually go away, I really believe the extent of the problem needs to be established so we don't see it as a larger or smaller problem than it is.

 

[Tomtomato]

we can't come up with a real percentage.

To be honest, I can also refer to my own experience: first motor lasted 4 months and 900 miles. Replacement "improved" motor lasted 6 months and 800 miles, and then lost most assistance/power.

Bike was in the shop for 2 weeks the first time, and required two further visits to resolve new issues.

My experience in term of failure in low mileage, and poor service from 50 Cycles is not an isolated incident.

If you think that's suitable quality for a bike costing £2,500, then I guess we have different standards.

is with a clacking noise which appears not to render the bike unusable.
.

It's an indication of upcoming failure. My first motor started clacking occasionally, then continuously and loudly (was noticeable by people on the street!).

 

[SteveRuss]

If you think that's suitable quality for a bike costing £2,500, then I guess we have different standards.
.

Seriously? I have never said that your experience should be considered normal or that I wouldn't be equally dismayed at what you've gone through.

There is no way my standards are low. If anything, I am one of the people at the front of any queue when a complaint needs to be made. I doubt I would have accepted anything other than a full refund when the second motor went and then I too would likely have told my story on forums such as this.

Criticising you was never my aim. It's just when any Impulse v.2 Kalkhoff product gets mentioned you're usually the first out of the gate warning people not to go anywhere near them. Although you may be right, I feel it's too hard to say until we know the real extent of the issue. That was really my only point other than I felt you missed the loose commitment to refurb motors outside of their two year warranty.

 

[Tomtomato]

I feel it's too hard to say until we know the real extent of the issue.

Google is your friend.

I felt you missed the loose commitment to refurb motors outside of their two year warranty.

I didn't, but they wouldn't commit to such thing in writing to me. Also, it's not just about the cost of parts, it's also the inconvenience to bring the bike back to the shop, them created other faults when the bike is in their care (or losing accessories), be without a bike for days/weeks, or be stranded far from home without assistance. I purchased an expensive "german-made" bike to ride trouble-free, not to spend hours resolving issues.

 

[SteveRuss]

Google is your friend.



I didn't, but they wouldn't commit to such thing in writing to me. Also, it's not just about the cost of parts, it's also the inconvenience to bring the bike back to the shop, them created other faults when the bike is in their care (or losing accessories), be without a bike for days/weeks, or be stranded far from home without assistance. I purchased an expensive "german-made" bike to ride trouble-free, not to spend hours resolving issues.

Google doesn't bring up as much as I expected. I've tried it before and tried it again as you mentioned it.

The search "impulse 2 motor problems" brings up the threads on here and then seems to fizzle out. I'm sure if you dig deeper you find more but it doesn't feel like a massively widespread issue from Google alone. Maybe it is but I think the argument that it is or it isn't needs more backbone to legitimise the issue either way.

Again. I fully get your frustration. I had a similar issue with a Volvo car which Volvo had tried to sneak out of their responsibility to fix for years, even challenging the issue in court until they won in Europe and lost in America. The issue meant you had to spend around £500 a year (or two) fixing a faulty part. The local dealer got it in the ear in front of some prospective customers on more than one occasion. Nothing changed. My following car was going to be the newer version of what I had at the time (Volvo C70) but I went back to Audi. More fool them..

 

[Tomtomato]

Extend your search to Germany, The Netherlands and France. A search on Google UK will return mainly results from this site.

Given the cost of those bikes, and the fact that ebikes are a very niche market, you are not going to get hundreds of results.

Anyway, I can provide my own opinion on my own experience, and people should be aware of similar risks when purchasing those bikes.

You can support 50 Cycles if you wish: hopefully, you won't have an issue with your bike or aftersales service.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Nashmills....we have a new bike ,named the Kudos Sprint,it is similar in style to the bikes you are looking at,if you search the forum you can find draft particulars,full details will be on our website soon.
The semi concealed battery,small wheels and folding handlebars and drop seat make the bike easily stowed. Similar to the Kalkhoff Sahel and KTM Compact.
All the parts used on this bike have been well proven over hundreds sold.
We will have production early July.
KudosDave