Kalkhoff Pro Connect. Impressive range.

[Cyclezee]

The poster also has an upper second class degree from Oxford University but, like all other human beings, makes the odd grammar mistake now and then, despite being an insufferable stickler for correct grammar himself.

I share your view about how important this is, RobF. I'm mortified. If you could go over all my previous posts on here, all the copy on the 50cycles.com website and all my blog posts, making a list of all the grammar mistakes as you go, I would be genuinely grateful.

Tim, It's shame you didn't get the same education as D8veh, your grammar would have been perfect.....but you wouldn't be able to spell

 

[EddiePJ]

if you had sent woosh a questionaire, they apparently sell as many hub driven bikes as crank drive bikes.

Yep, and why wouldn't they. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, and it's certainly not possible to state that one system is better than the other. It simply comes down to personal preference, and mine is for hub drive.

A possible issue with the Pro Connect 10 is that, being 10 gears, the chain would be narrower, and therefore more likely to break, given the high torque and strain from the Impulse 2 mid-motor.

You have edited out the comment that you made to being left stranded miles from anywhere with a snapped chain, but I really don't see why a ten speed chain would ever be likely to snap through normal use. I can't find any written evidence to back your claim up, but if as you say chains are snapping, then it would more than likely come down to poor quality original equipment, along with the possibility of poor gear selection.
I run ten speed chains, and mine probably have to put up with more arduous use in the space of just a few hundred miles, than most others are ever likely to put their chains through, after a life time of use.
Whilst I have worn chains out in mileage ranging anything from 100ish miles - 600miles, and cassettes and front sprockets in less than 600 miles, I have yet to have a chain snap.
It'll probably happen to me on the one day that I leave both my spare chain, chain tool, and spare snap links behind at home.
It's certainly no biggie if a chain did snap though, as it's just a couple of minutes work to replace a link, and I wouldn't be worrying about it.
The weak link for me, is the crank drive motor. The first bearing failure happened at roughly 600-650 miles, and the second bearing failure after a further 400 miles or so. By using your logic, that certainly doesn't make crank drive the better motor, and would make hub drive far superior.That damning and sweeping statement, would neither be correct or true.

 

[flecc]

So to summarise: the biggest manufacturer in Europe started selling a lot of crank-driven bikes and then developed its own system... So lots of people were purchasing bikes with crank drive: I guess there must be some reasons behind this...

Let me try an theory: maybe they liked the bikes?

I prefer the theory that the Germans bought them because the e-bikes were German. Once Kalkhoff changed the crank unit from the Japanese Panasonic to the German Bosch one, the sales in Germany increased even more.

But The Netherlands population with the biggest e-bike sales in Europe stopped buying crank drives and now all their Dutch made e-bikes have hub motors.

Never discount nationalism.
.
.

 

[trex]

three biggest advantages of hub drives are: low cost, light weight and independency from gear selection.
Three biggest advantages of crank drive are electrical efficiency, superior water proofing and better heat dispersal. CD motors have the copper wires on the outside and run at around 3000 rpm.

 

[Tomtomato]

three biggest advantages of hub drives are: low cost, light weight and independency from gear selection.

I think independence from gear selection is a drawback in term of efficiency, and a positive for crank driven systems. In term of risk of having a chain snapping and not being able to go back home, then independence of the motor system from the bike mechanical drive train is a plus!

 

[Tomtomato]

You have edited out the comment that you made to being left stranded miles from anywhere with a snapped chain, but I really don't see why a ten speed chain would ever be likely to snap through normal use.

It didn't happen to me, but I have read it from two separate people, and at least one person had the original chain when it happened after 350 miles. Of course, we don't know the exact circumstances, whether the chain was well maintained, whether there was some early signs of likely failure being ignored like skipping gears, high amount of strain etc.

I am assuming that a 10 speed chain would be more fragile than a 9 speed one. How much more, I don't know.

I plan to change the chain on my Pro Connect 10 every 1000 miles proactively anyway (seems to be reasonable mileage), so hopefully will never happen to me.

Crank drive failure would indeed be annoying, but at least I assume the person would still be able to cycle home without motor/power. In term of warranty, I would expect a crank drive motor to last a very long time, and therefore still to be covered after many years, under SOGA, as it does not have to be serviced anyway, so user cannot be at fault.

 

[RobF]

No chain problems on my Bosch bikes.

That could change, although after several thousand miles I don't expect it to.

Chains are a consumable item and regular replacement must reduce the risk of a break.

Every 1,000 miles looks like overkill to me, it's not as if the chain is keeping a passenger jet in the air.

But I would never knock what could be called gold standard maintenance.

 

[Tomtomato]

Every 1,000 miles looks like overkill to me, it's not as if the chain is keeping a passenger jet in the air.

Yes indeed, not that critical, although a chain snapping while going at speed can be quite dangerous, and also I wouldn't like being stuck too far from home (and I go much further away with my bike now).

How many miles do you keep yours?

I am cleaning, decreasing and then using dry lube (keeps the chain looking clean!) on mine regularly.

 

[Croxden]

6300 miles on my Delite & still going strong without lubrication.

Oil only collects dirt & grit to cause wear, just keep it clean and allow the original chain lube to work, do not wash it out with oil.

 

[Tomtomato]

6300 miles on my Delite & still going strong without lubrication.

Oil only collects dirt & grit to cause wear, just keep it clean and allow the original chain lube to work, do not wash it out with oil.

So I take you don't use a degreaser for cleaning then? Else you would surely have to oil/lube the chain!

Surely, not much of the original chain lube left after so many miles!

 

[RobF]

I don't keep mileage records which means my comments are very subjective.

I've replaced the chain on the Rose, but only because changing the gearing meant the original was too short.

The Rose is a hub gear bike, so the chain line is always perfect and there's no wear from derailing it and scraping it across a cassette.

The chain on that bike will last for years/many thousands of miles.

Chain maintenance is a topic in itself, but I agree with Croxden there is a danger of washing out the lube by degreasing.

Conditions of use come into it, Eddie PJ's full on mountain biking is many times harder on the drivetrain than my longer journeys on road and cycle path

I wipe the chains on my bikes after every ride and usually give them a spray with GT85.

The chains are clean and run silently, which I reckon indicates there is sufficient lubrication.

Works for me, other regimes work for others.

 

[Croxden]

So I take you don't use a degreaser for cleaning then? Else you would surely have to oil/lube the chain!

Surely, not much of the original chain lube left after so many miles!

No degreaser used just a good wipe with a cloth. If caught in the rain, a slight spray with GT 85 just to remove the wet. There is signs of rust on the chain side but all the links are bright and flexible. I made the decision to do this to see what would happen, I have found it to be much better when comparing to my previous bikes problems when I used oils.

I lied a little saying no lube, at 6000 miles I applied White Lightening wax lube. It's clean and nothing sticks to it to turn into a grinding paste and coagulate around the chain tensioner.

 

[EddiePJ]

a chain snapping while going at speed can be quite dangerous

Especially if momentum made you slip from the pedals and crack the crown jewels.