Kalkhoff Integrale

[bikey850]

Hello,

I am interested in the Kalkhoff Integrale range. Does anybody have experience of these (I have searched but getting a complete review seems hard)?

I am also somewhat concerned that the inframe battery will be hard to source (or expensive) in a few years time when it needs replacing.

I do not think I want the S-pedalec as I am assuming it will still be able to acheive a good speed (although not with assist) by pedeling. Can the rear sprocket be swapped out like a regular bike to change ratios and top speed?

Many thanks in advance for any guidance/advice that can be provided.

 

[RobF]

The Integrale is a nicely designed bike - a mate of mine has one and it looks the business in the flesh.

The bike bits are standard, so you can change the rear cassette.

Realistically, pedalling a 20kg+ ebike above the assist limit is not easy, unless you are such a strong rider as to not need an ebike in the first place.

The battery will be £500+ to replace, but the batteries for the main competition - Bosch - are no cheaper.

Your bigger problem is reliability concerns over the motor.

It's hard to assess chatter on the internet, but there seems to be too many owners with motor problems to ignore.

Most of those relate to the Impulse motor, but the Evo also seems to be affected.

Kalkhoff will probably sort the problems at some point, but at the moment I wouldn't buy one.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I picked up a Kalkhoff at a recent show to see how heavy it was. It was very heavy indeed compared with other electric bikes. I'd guess at 30kg. I don't know what model it was, but it did have the battery in the frame, so check the weight before you buy one.

 

[Ted B.]

I saw some at the shop, and they did look good.

However, it's was very heavy for a bike (or even an ebike), at least 25kg. Maybe you can go to London and try a Santander "Boris" bike (probably about the same weight), and see if you are likely to take it above 17mph (speed where assistance cuts off on Kalkhoff bikes)...

 

[bikey850]

Hello,

Thank you for the advise and guidance.

As an alternative to the Integrale what would be the recommendation to look at? I like the all-in-design of the integrale and it does appear as though Kalkhoff have a resonable reputation regarding quality of materials used (motors aside).

I'm really just looking for the assit on the hills so the reasoning that 15mph would be fine for crawling uphill. Is there a lighter bike/brand that would be worth investigatiing? Perhaps that would allow me to make greater progress when the assist was not needed.

Many thanks in advance,

 

[Crockers]

I'd go for the Giant Road E over the Kalkhoff any day. A lovely looking bike with a rock solid Yamaha motor.

Also 2017 promises to be an interesting model year with many new bikes coming to market with a more integrated design.

As for the Impulse motor....I'd run a mile from it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you're looking to pedal above the assist speed, you should look for a bike that's light-weight (maybe around 20kg or less) and fairly streamlined. Streamlined means thinish tyres and rigid forks.

In case it interests you, some of the cheaper and middle range electric bikes can easily be derestricted to get much higher assist speeds. If that's important for you, make sure that you know about it before purchasing.

 

[IR772]

I'm really just looking for the assit on the hills so the reasoning that 15mph would be fine for crawling uphill.

I don't ever remember 15 MPH up hill being a crawl.

 

[bigray69]

got a ktm e street love it on straight had it up to 20 mph, used assist to get there i love it fantastic quality love the panasonic motor. very quite.
Still brings a smile every time i go out.

 

[RobF]

I'd go for the Giant Road E over the Kalkhoff any day. A lovely looking bike with a rock solid Yamaha motor.

Also 2017 promises to be an interesting model year with many new bikes coming to market with a more integrated design.

As for the Impulse motor....I'd run a mile from it.

The Giant Road E is a good shout, integrated battery and one of the easiest legal ebikes to pedal above 15mph.

However, I understand a recent test in which the cycling mag hacks tried Road Es on some Alpine climb or other wasn't quite what it seemed.

They managed to burn out a couple of motors on the way up, and fried a few disc brakes on the way down.

None of which made it into any article I've seen.

It could be the journalists thought the test was unrealistically extreme, so publishing the breakdowns would be unfair.

But a cynic might say the omissions were more to do with not wanting to upset Giant and risk interrupting the supply of freebie bikes in the future.

Either way, very few recreational riders are likely to use the bike that hard so one would probably be reliable in most hands.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/giant-road-e-review-47443/

 

[Deleted member 4366]

However, I understand a recent test in which the cycling mag hacks tried Road Es on some Alpine climb or other wasn't quite what it seemed.

They managed to burn out a couple of motors on the way up, and fried a few disc brakes on the way down.

Where did you get that from?

Personally, I find it very worrying because the motor doesn't know how steep the hill is. It would be the same climbing a very steep hill in a low gear as a medium hill in a high gear, so you don't need to go to the Alps to get the same stress on the motor. What about a dongled version, where the motor will be running continuously at its maximum power.

To burn out a motor, you just have to give it high power at low (internal) motor speed, which you can do at any time with a crank-motor by selecting a higher gear; however, I would expect the motor to be protected against that.

 

[RobF]

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/giant-road-e-review-47443/

Fair play to Bike Radar, their report mentions the bikes overheating/shutting down and cooking their brakes on the descent.

Some of the roadies descend like loonies anyway, so on a heavy ebike the brakes will take some hammer.

They are also not known for spinning up hills, so may have climbed in a high gear as d8 describes.

 

[soundwave]

if you dongle it then the disc rotors will need changing to bigger ones there just to small for the speed you will be able to go and get hot fast.

 

[nemesis]

I bought a Kalkhoff integrale when they first came for sale at the end of 2015.
Firstly they are very heavy (27kg) and the power has been downgraded to save the motors so i wasn`t impressed.
The motor was making noises straight away and a new motor was fitted after two weeks so i sold it on.
There are lighter bikes out there with more reliable motors for the same money and i now have a Cube carbon with the Bosch CX motor bought in february,great bike being fairly light and good power.
No breakdowns or noises so far and i use it every day around 30 miles.

 

[bikey850]

Hello, thanks again for all the advice.

I have found the following Giant which appears to be an equivilent to the Integrale (well close-ish)

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/series/quick.e/28542/

Battery not quite as large (11ah vs 17ah) but I wonder if this is so important (expecially if the bike weighes less? It's mainly for commute to the city of approx 8miles each way. Not quite uphill both ways (!) so there is a desire to get some speed on the downhill sections with the battery being used to reduce the pain of the return journey.

Any others worth investigating would be apprecited - are Trek worth a look?

Thanks in advance,

 

[IR772]

Do not worry about the battery size.

Even if you use High assistance all the time you will do the journey and back easily.

When you tune down to Standard and then Eco+ ( as you get fitter) you will get great ranges still with strong assistance. You need to take a long test ride to see how good ebikes are.

My bike is different (MTB so more road drag) but has same motor and battery as the one you listed.

Last night I cycled 12.8 miles on eco+ a very hilly route and I still have 74% battery left.

I don't fancy your route that is uphill both ways though!

I think a Trekking type is much better for you as it has Mudguards and racks already fitted that for commuting are essential.

No one wants a wetass especially at work.

 

[bikey850]

Thanks.

The issues with the motor drive system - is this for the Impulse 2.0 or the Impulse Evo?

Just wish to make sure that the drive on the Integrale is not being tarred with the same brush as the Impulse 2.0.

The Integrale appears to have the Impulse Evo and can find no details about problems with that particular drive system.

Perhaps these issues have been sorted on the Impulse Evo drive units?

Thanks in advance,

 

[soundwave]

the few on here that have the evo also report the same problem in the other thread that was locked.

 

[Ted B.]

If your main usage is to go in town (16 miles round trip), then you surely don't need a 17Ah battery, probably capable of doing 80-100 miles, so the choices are much broader than Kalkhoff bikes.

Fewer issues have been reported on the Kalkhoff Evo motors, but I suspect very few have been sold, since much more recent motor, and much higher prices (starting price is about £3K in the UK, so you can't expect large volumes of sales). With that type of prices, and issues reported here and other forums, you have to be fairly brave to go for that.

If you are still keen to buy a Kalkhoff bike, you may want to wait for other resellers to start selling that brand in the UK, as the current exclusive distributor/reseller in the UK (50 Cycles) does not seem to have a great track record (to put it nicely) when it comes to after sales and services.

As mentioned recently on another thread, Kalkhoff is soon planning to sell directly to other resellers in the UK, so 50 Cycles won't have the exclusivity anymore. Competition may also bring prices down as a result.