Kalkhoff Endeavour S11 Premium,how to register

[Blackgold]

Am thinking I might buy a new bike for 2016,Have got used to the speed of my current bike and want something faster. It says that on 50 cycles website that the Kalkhoff Endeavour S11 Premium will power to 28mph,that I like. But it says that to use this bicycle on a public road the user must first register it,fit a registration plate,then tax,then insure it,register it as Lie light moped.
How difficult is it to register this bike? Anybody registered one?

 

[JohnCade]

No is the answer. Look up the threads where a couple of people have registered similar self build bikes and they had to make them into electric mopeds. Moped lights, wheels you name it.

Spedelecs are not legal in the UK and cannot be registered or used legally. Something which 50 Cycles should spell out on its site but doesn’t.

 

[flecc]

Seconded, the S class pedelecs can only be registered as L1e-B mopeds after they've been type approved as such, but they cannot get anywhere near meeting the requirements for that. Therefore in the UK they are illegal on the roads.

In the mainland EU, Germany has a specific class for them, as has The Netherlands with some limitations, and from January 2017 France will have too. But the DfT in the UK has refused to accept them as a separate class so far.
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[Blackgold]

Sorry guys,am so confused. On the 50 cycles website it has reviews,it says Niel from Worthing has done 1860 miles on one from Worthing to Brighton,30 miles commuting per day,how did he register it?

 

[flecc]

Sorry guys,am so confused. On the 50 cycles website it has reviews,it says Niel from Worthing has done 1860 miles on one from Worthing to Brighton,30 miles commuting per day,how did he register it?

I've no doubt he didn't. There are a fair number of S pedelecs on our roads illegally, the riders relying on the lack of policing or police knowledge of the law on ebikes to get away with it. 50cycles have sold quite a few of them into the UK, all being illegally used.

The first I knew of one being used illegally in this way was by a forum member back in early 2007 when he imported a Swizzbee high speed bike from Switzerland for commuting in London. I haven't seen him posting for many years now.

Also in early 2006 there was an ebike on the market that purported to be legal though it power assisted to 22 mph, so effectively an S class bike. It was very popular, I owned one myself and it was a best seller in 2006 and 2007 until it was withdrawn in favour of a legal replacement model. The agent for those at that time was also 50cycles.
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[anotherkiwi]

Question: What happens if I come visit you in the UK on my French registered moped? I.e. an s-pedelec registered under the current law in France.

 

[flecc]

Question: What happens if I come visit you in the UK on my French registered moped? I.e. an s-pedelec registered under the current law in France.

I think technically you should be stopped at the point of entry and the vehicle taken until your return to France. However, that wouldn't happen in practice since the only incoming vehicle compliance checks we conduct are those on HGVs, following the considerable trouble those have caused.

That's commensurate with the opposite case where we cannot use our vehicles in France without modification of the headlight beam pattern etc and compliance with some other requirements.
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[anotherkiwi]

That is what I was thinking. I have seen some crazy French guy or other who had ridden to London from the other end of the earth on their Peugeot 103. As long as they were wearing a helmet and had an insurance sticker they were never bothered by police. At the time they didn't even have number plates and UK mopeds did have to have them.

 

[Blackgold]

I've no doubt he didn't. There are a fair number of S pedelecs on our roads illegally, the riders relying on the lack of policing or police knowledge of the law on ebikes to get away with it. 50cycles have sold quite a few of them into the UK, all being illegally used.

The first I knew of one being used illegally in this way was by a forum member back in early 2007 when he imported a Swizzbee high speed bike from Switzerland for commuting in London. I haven't seen him posting for many years now.

Also in early 2006 there was an ebike on the market that purported to be legal though it power assisted to 22 mph, so effectively an S class bike. It was very popular, I owned one myself and it was a best seller in 2006 and 2007 until it was withdrawn in favour of a legal replacement model. The agent for those at that time was also 50cycles.
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Flecc,are you sure,I respect your postings but 50 cycles appears to be the largest seller of electric bikes in the UK.Surely they wouldnt risk selling illegal bikes in the UK and review that their customers are using them. Is there anyone I can email to ask how to register?,I fancy that 28mph bike but dont want to use it illegally.

 

[JohnCade]

Flecc,are you sure,I respect your postings but 50 cycles appears to be the largest seller of electric bikes in the UK.Surely they wouldnt risk selling illegal bikes in the UK and review that their customers are using them. Is there anyone I can email to ask how to register?,I fancy that 28mph bike but dont want to use it illegally.

The thing is that there is no risk to them. Not even from trading standards for misleading advertising when another dealer put them on their case. It isn’t illegal to sell them only to use them….

Technically they may be liable when they allow a test ride. As I wrote before do a search here. All this, including 50 Cycles liability or not, has been covered in great detail and not very long ago.

 

[flecc]

Flecc,are you sure,I respect your postings but 50 cycles appears to be the largest seller of electric bikes in the UK.Surely they wouldnt risk selling illegal bikes in the UK and review that their customers are using them. Is there anyone I can email to ask how to register?,I fancy that 28mph bike but dont want to use it illegally.

I am absolutely certain without any possibility of a mistake. This is a subject that has been discussed in great depth over many years.

The S class bikes are not legal in the UK and there is no class to register them. Only in the last week we've had one of the larger suppliers, Kudos, posting about their illegality and the impossibilities of type approval, and only type approved vehicles can be registered.

As for 50cycles, as I've just posted they were the beneficiaries of knowingly selling the illegal 22 mph bikes I mentioned, since they were the agents for those eZee Torq 1 models at that time. They sold well over 600 in the closing months of 2006 and posted in here of that fact, and went on to sell many more in 2007.

The fact that they sell the illegal S class bikes is a source of annoyance to other agents who do comply with the law, and they've posted that in here a number of times.

Have a look at this post from KTM for example.

And this post from Kudos.
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[anotherkiwi]

From the site:

"TYPE APPROVAL CLASSIFICATION L1e light moped. To use this bicycle on a public road the user must first register it, fit a registration plate and then tax and insure it. Registration plate holder can be removed in those territories where these restrictions do not apply."

In France I have posted a link previously with dealer instructions for registering these bikes as L1e. The dealer provides the Type Approval Certificate and other paper work you go to the prefecture and get your carte grise. Once you have that you can have the number plate made. These bikes now appear in the insurance database for my insurer.

If I find another better paid job I will probably jump through all the hoops. 4000€ + 250€ for a Cratoni s-pedelec helmet but very low running costs. Even compared to a 4 stroke 125cc bike.

 

[4bound]

Flecc,are you sure,I respect your postings but 50 cycles appears to be the largest seller of electric bikes in the UK.Surely they wouldnt risk selling illegal bikes in the UK and review that their customers are using them. Is there anyone I can email to ask how to register?,I fancy that 28mph bike but dont want to use it illegally.

In case you are still in doubt Blackgold then I also am sure that these bikes cannot be legally used in the UK in any area to which the public have access. I also feel that 50 cycles should make this much clearer on their website.

On the other hand there are lots of other things that are illegal but generally in use - most, if not all bike lights for one thing, pedals that don't have reflectors, driving at 71 on a Motorway, etc. The chances of anyone being stopped and dealt with by the police for the offence of riding one of these bikes must be vanishingly small. Of course the problem could come if you were involved in some incident with a car, pedestrian, animal etc. The lawyers could make a fortune if it came to light you were using an illegal bike.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Flecc,are you sure,I respect your postings but 50 cycles appears to be the largest seller of electric bikes in the UK.Surely they wouldnt risk selling illegal bikes in the UK and review that their customers are using them. Is there anyone I can email to ask how to register?,I fancy that 28mph bike but dont want to use it illegally.

Flecc is totally correct. There is no way you can use an sPedelec legally in the UK.

Anyone that sells you an sPelelec and tells you you can register it, or that it can be used offroad etc etc... is lying to you.

 

[flecc]

From the site:

"TYPE APPROVAL CLASSIFICATION L1e light moped. To use this bicycle on a public road the user must first register it, fit a registration plate and then tax and insure it. Registration plate holder can be removed in those territories where these restrictions do not apply."

In France I have posted a link previously with dealer instructions for registering these bikes as L1e. The dealer provides the Type Approval Certificate and other paper work you go to the prefecture and get your carte grise. Once you have that you can have the number plate made. These bikes now appear in the insurance database for my insurer.

If I find another better paid job I will probably jump through all the hoops. 4000€ + 250€ for a Cratoni s-pedelec helmet but very low running costs. Even compared to a 4 stroke 125cc bike.

To ensure that your post doesn't confuse Blackgold, this does not apply in the UK. Type approval here as L1e is impossible for an S class bike as supplied, so registration is also not possible.

Legally it is also not possible at present in France since no S class bike complies with the EU wide type approval technical requirements, but it seems from what you say that the authorities have a lax approach to that law. They don't here.
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[Blackgold]

Thanks everyone,it may not be illegal that 50 cycles sells bikes which cannot be used legally on the road but it absolutely stinks that they continue to advertise them,awful company
I did ask a KTM dealer about buying a KTM S-class but they immediately advised the same as you guys that you cannot register one in the UK and cannot legally use it on our roads.
Will stick with my current electric bike.

 

[soundwave]

buy it if you want it the police will not bother you on that bike at all.

the motor will tho

 

[Nealh]

My brother has a Kalkhoff s-ped and uses it a couple times a week for a 40 mile commute never been stopped or bothered by the bizzies, just buy and ride.

 

[flecc]

My brother has a Kalkhoff s-ped and uses it a couple times a week for a 40 mile commute never been stopped or bothered by the bizzies, just buy and ride.

That isn't the problem of course, as said earlier, it's if one is in an accident that the complications can arise. The only two occasions I've known of the police questioning an e-bike's legality was after accidents, both times by traffic officers doing the investigation. They were thorough and a 350 watt S pedelec would not have escaped their notice.
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[soundwave]

there dead im ok lol