kalkhoff bs10 my first week.

[rippedupno1]

I thought I would share my first week's experience with my Kalhoff bs10.....yes I know it's the illegal one and I am sorry if that makes me a bad person.
The buying experience:-
I rang 50cycles to checkk that they had one to test at their head office in Loughborough, which they did so i arranged to go the next day.After an hour and half journey I arrived at 50cycles HQ the next day and was met promptly by a member of staff who brought out a bs10 for me to try, I was encouraged to go off the premises to test it out fully and felt under no time limit pressure.Needless to say the bike felt fantastic and I returned after about 30 mins to open negotiations....I managed to obtain a good discount so proceeded with the purchase, i was asked if I wanted their free delivery but said no as I wanted them to assemble it properly so i could take it with me, having not owned a bike for over 30years and having no tools I wanted to make sure that everything was set up by the experts. No problem they said, it will take about 40 mins sir, and sure enough 40mins later they were loading it into my car, I set off home a happy bunny.....During a coffee break on the way home i received an email from 50cycles as I was now on their mailing list to say that 2 of their models had now been reduced to clear 2013 stock,yes ,you guessed it the bs10 was one of them £55 less than I had paid an hour or so before! Straight on the phone and spoke to the guy who had sold it to me,"I thought you might be in touch sir" damn right! Anyway he had spoken to the boss and he had agreed to refund my card for the £55 so no problem.As a matter of interest this was Tuesday and as of this evening ,saturday,my card still is not showing any refund.
The first ride:-
It is now Wednesday as I had to charge the battery and by the time it had charged it was pouring with rain. Helmet on and I am off...the front wheel doesn't seem straight, not much but enough to just look not right and the front brake Judders when y apply it mmmmm, I get to the bottom of my road and am thinking I had better turn around, do so,and pulled away only to have a big noise from the rear gears and then they slid down from second all the way to ninth, every time i tried to change to a lower gear it would do it ,make a right noise then slid back to ninth, I hobbled home and back on the phone to 50cycles,the workshop staff were very polite and said if I brought it back they would sort it out for me.looked like I was faced with another 3hour round trip! As luck would have it a neighbour is quite a serious cyclist so when he got home from work asked him to have a look at it for me, out came the his work stand and tool kit.....leave it with me he said. An hour later he comes round with the words" whoever set that up wants shooting" He had been on the kalhoff website and downloaded the torque settings for all the nuts and bolts for the bike and found only one that was correct! the handlebar clamp had only been tightened one one side, the gear problem was from the nut holding the cable that comes out of the bottom of the rear derailleur hadn't been tightened ,hence the slipping. 60psi in the front tyre, 45psi in the rear etc etc......
I suppose the moral of this story is that I should have been more knowledgeable about bikes and checked it myself but given that they were fully aware that I didn't have the knowledge, hence asking them to set it up for me I find this standard of workmanship totally unacceptable. I ,like many of you have purchased many new cars in my time and have never found it necessary to check that the wheels are on tight or that the gearbox has been attached to the car correctly you kind of take it as read! Kalhoff is an upmarket brand that prides itself on its reputation for quality, seems a shame that such a quality product should be treated in such a shoddy way by the dealer.
Finally,the first real ride:-
What a difference, now it had been set up correctly it was like a totally different machine, smooth, quiet very comfortable and slick gear changes. I did 12miles of fairly flat riding ,mainly on the tour settings, is very quick going easily up to 20-22mph ,I could easily see how 28mph is attainable on the higher settings. The brakes are seriously good,the best I have tried on any ebike,smooth and powerful. I found t riding position spot on for me, not too far forward on my wrists and yet not too upright, just a nice balance between the two.After my 12miles the computer said I still had a range of 37 miles left on the tour setting.

Overall thoughts:-
I really like this bike and having tried many I knew that the Bosch crank drive was the one for me.Together with the undoubted quality of the Kalhoff and the added bonus of a more powerful motor it is a seriously impressive package .It is a shame about my experience withthe dealer and I await their response with interest but I am not going to let that detract from a great bike.

Sorry for the long post folks I just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[103Alex1]

Glad to hear it's working well now .... I've had my expectations completely reset about bikes and dealers over the last year. Don't think 50cycles use torque wrenches btw. I appreciate if you work with a range for ages you likely don't need them but you have to look at the evidence when things like this happen. There must be a setup checklist to work through when putting a new bike out. Especially since Kalkhoff produce so many different models with so many different systems and specifications.

I'm reminded of buying certain German cars in years gone by and then putting them in to UK dealers to have works done. The general rule of thumb used to be that as soon as they've been tinkered with by the UK "Service" centre they'll never work properly again. Had a family friend who used to drive his Mercedes over to Germany to be serviced and wouldn't let a UK dealer touch it. Don't know what it's like nowadays but ..........

As you say in the end it's the bike that matters most and sounds like you're happy with it. Enjoy .

 

[atheo]

I also have one of these, and riding it is a pleasure with a dongle fitted

 

[RobF]

For the bike to be such a mess it must have left the factory in a ropey state, which the dealer did naff-all to sort out.

Neither Kalkhoff nor 50 Cycles have come out of this at all well.

 

[Artstu]

I also have one of these, and riding it is a pleasure with a dongle fitted

wow, I never thought you'd need to do that with one of these, how fast do you go now?

 

[atheo]

wow, I never thought you'd need to do that with one of these, how fast do you go now?

So far,only 33mph due to road length conditions
I only ride the bike to work

 

[rippedupno1]

Hi Atheo, I didn't realise they did a dongle for the bs10,i thought the dongle was for the 250watt bosch crank drives and not the 350 watt as fitted to the bs10 as I understood that you already get assistance up to 28 mph as standard? Do you find a big benefit over the standard bs10? cheers

 

[amigafan2003]

Hi Atheo, I didn't realise they did a dongle for the bs10,i thought the dongle was for the 250watt bosch crank drives and not the 350 watt as fitted to the bs10 as I understood that you already get assistance up to 28 mph as standard? Do you find a big benefit over the standard bs10? cheers

The dongle also works with the "S" bikes so you can exceed the S-class 45kph limit

 

[rippedupno1]

Dare i even ask what speed it gives assistance too?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[atheo]

Hi Atheo, I didn't realise they did a dongle for the bs10,i thought the dongle was for the 250watt bosch crank drives and not the 350 watt as fitted to the bs10 as I understood that you already get assistance up to 28 mph as standard? Do you find a big benefit over the standard bs10? cheers

I bought the dongle to find out what difference it would make to the bike,then I unplugged it to reassess the difference.It was only going downhill that ,with the limited straight roads around here,I didn`t like the motor cutting out at 28mph,so I plugged it back in and left it there.

 

[amigafan2003]

Dare i even ask what speed it gives assistance too?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

There isn't a limit (as it's been removed) - it will assist you no matter your speed.

You'll hit the "watt wall" at around 33mph with no headwind though - i.e. your pedalling watts + motor watts = around 1000watts, which is what you need for approx 33mph. Get a stiff tailwind behind you or point it down hill and you could see nigh on 40mph but your legs will be whizzing round at this point and you'll have run out of gears ;-)

 

[Artstu]

There isn't a limit (as it's been removed) - it will assist you no matter your speed.

Not strictly true, the assistance will stop above 90 kph/ 56 mph. granted you'd need some slightly higher gearing to take advantage of it on a long or steep downhill section.

 

[103Alex1]

So can the chainring be swapped out for a bigger one on these Bosch bikes ? Still trying to get my head around this gearing thing properly.

 

[Artstu]

So can the chainring be swapped out for a bigger one on these Bosch bikes ? Still trying to get my head around this gearing thing properly.

I imagine so, standard is 44 tooth, a 52 front combined with the 11 rear would give around 129 gear inches which should do the trick, the 52x34 bottom gear would be a rather high 42 gear inches though.

 

[103Alex1]

I imagine so, standard is 44 tooth, a 52 front combined with the 11 rear would give around 129 gear inches which should do the trick, the 52x34 bottom gear would be a rather high 42 gear inches though.

So you really need a double front chainring to get back your lower gears ? Isn't there a Bosch bike somewhere with one of these ?

What's the effective max Watts capabilities of the 350W motor ?

 

[Artstu]

This bike has a double chain-ring, not sure what it is,Cube perhaps? or a Sram dual-drive with a cassette and 3-speed hub.

[video=youtube;TKCgEfhlsL8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKCgEfhlsL8[/video]

 

[103Alex1]

Unless the housing on that unit is different to housings on other Bosch bike units then surely a double chainring is at least a feasible install ? The one on the vid looks like an inverted unit a la Haibike - wonder if it's the same setup on the regular ones. The double chainring could already be a mod rather than a factory-supplied option. Double chainring would definitely be useful on a performance crank drive bike for hills, motor or not. Granted you'd have to fit a front derailleur and install a front shifter. Plus it probably mucks up any chainguard - but I'm thinking sports bike rather than utility here.

Tools-wise, is that some sort of crank-arm extraction tool in step 2 ? Also what sort of (monster) wrench is he using to get that BB bearing (?) off ? !

Wonder whether the Panasonic 47W system is compatible with a double chainring ... or the Impulse ... hmmmm ... someone needs to open the up these proprietary units and have a look at what chainring options can be fitted . Hub gear bikes are best for touring/utility and moderate performance. The Nuvinci thing is all very well but in a serious performance crank drive bike I'd still be after retaining lower end and getting much more higher end. The Alfine-11 is high (happily still pedalling at 35mph yesterday downhill with a bit more to go) but there's room to use even more before completely spinning out so I'm guessing you only really have one option for maximizing performance and that's a derailleur setup with a double front ring.

 

[amigafan2003]

Not strictly true, the assistance will stop above 90 kph/ 56 mph. granted you'd need some slightly higher gearing to take advantage of it on a long or steep downhill section.

That's a natural kv limit that all brushless motors have*, not a software limit ;-)

*kv limit - not 56mph - kv varies between motors - otherwise refered to as "turns".

 

[Streethawk]

I thought I would share my first week's experience with my Kalhoff bs10.....yes I know it's the illegal one and I am sorry if that makes me a bad person.
The buying experience:-
I rang 50cycles to checkk that they had one to test at their head office in Loughborough, which they did so i arranged to go the next day.After an hour and half journey I arrived at 50cycles HQ the next day and was met promptly by a member of staff who brought out a bs10 for me to try, I was encouraged to go off the premises to test it out fully and felt under no time limit pressure.Needless to say the bike felt fantastic and I returned after about 30 mins to open negotiations....I managed to obtain a good discount so proceeded with the purchase, i was asked if I wanted their free delivery but said no as I wanted them to assemble it properly so i could take it with me, having not owned a bike for over 30years and having no tools I wanted to make sure that everything was set up by the experts. No problem they said, it will take about 40 mins sir, and sure enough 40mins later they were loading it into my car, I set off home a happy bunny.....During a coffee break on the way home i received an email from 50cycles as I was now on their mailing list to say that 2 of their models had now been reduced to clear 2013 stock,yes ,you guessed it the bs10 was one of them £55 less than I had paid an hour or so before! Straight on the phone and spoke to the guy who had sold it to me,"I thought you might be in touch sir" damn right! Anyway he had spoken to the boss and he had agreed to refund my card for the £55 so no problem.As a matter of interest this was Tuesday and as of this evening ,saturday,my card still is not showing any refund. I managed to get a very slightly better deal than that, but it's still a good price for the bike
The first ride:-
It is now Wednesday as I had to charge the battery and by the time it had charged it was pouring with rain. Helmet on and I am off...the front wheel doesn't seem straight, not much but enough to just look not right and the front brake Judders when y apply it mmmmm, I get to the bottom of my road and am thinking I had better turn around, do so,and pulled away only to have a big noise from the rear gears and then they slid down from second all the way to ninth, every time i tried to change to a lower gear it would do it ,make a right noise then slid back to ninth, I hobbled home and back on the phone to 50cycles,the workshop staff were very polite and said if I brought it back they would sort it out for me.looked like I was faced with another 3hour round trip! As luck would have it a neighbour is quite a serious cyclist so when he got home from work asked him to have a look at it for me, out came the his work stand and tool kit.....leave it with me he said. An hour later he comes round with the words" whoever set that up wants shooting" He had been on the kalhoff website and downloaded the torque settings for all the nuts and bolts for the bike and found only one that was correct! the handlebar clamp had only been tightened one one side, the gear problem was from the nut holding the cable that comes out of the bottom of the rear derailleur hadn't been tightened ,hence the slipping. 60psi in the front tyre, 45psi in the rear etc etc...... I found all the stem bolts to be loose, which i understand is something 50cycles do as the rest of the bike is ready to go from Kalkhoff, so your derailleur problem was from the factory and cant really be blamed on the dealer. I will double check mine when i get home though
I suppose the moral of this story is that I should have been more knowledgeable about bikes and checked it myself but given that they were fully aware that I didn't have the knowledge, hence asking them to set it up for me I find this standard of workmanship totally unacceptable. I ,like many of you have purchased many new cars in my time and have never found it necessary to check that the wheels are on tight or that the gearbox has been attached to the car correctly you kind of take it as read! Kalhoff is an upmarket brand that prides itself on its reputation for quality, seems a shame that such a quality product should be treated in such a shoddy way by the dealer.
Finally,the first real ride:-
What a difference, now it had been set up correctly it was like a totally different machine, smooth, quiet very comfortable and slick gear changes. I did 12miles of fairly flat riding ,mainly on the tour settings, is very quick going easily up to 20-22mph ,I could easily see how 28mph is attainable on the higher settings. The brakes are seriously good,the best I have tried on any ebike,smooth and powerful. I found t riding position spot on for me, not too far forward on my wrists and yet not too upright, just a nice balance between the two.After my 12miles the computer said I still had a range of 37 miles left on the tour setting. Yes, the bike is fast and handles great, it just feels like a quality bike regardless of electrics. I had considered a dongle for mine, but i would not like to put up with the loss of the HMI accuracy, which is one of the features that sold me on a Bosch bike in the first place. After all, the gain on a BS10 is much less than on a legal bike.

Overall thoughts:-
I really like this bike and having tried many I knew that the Bosch crank drive was the one for me.Together with the undoubted quality of the Kalhoff and the added bonus of a more powerful motor it is a seriously impressive package .It is a shame about my experience withthe dealer and I await their response with interest but I am not going to let that detract from a great bike.

Sorry for the long post folks I just wanted to share my thoughts.

I have had mine about a week longer than you, and in that time i've now done 170 miles, it would have been much more, except for the awful weather. Once i went around the bike and checked everything was tight i've not had anymore problems. I plan to swap the cassette out for one with a 36t large sprocket, that will gain me a smidge more climbing ability without affecting the top end. As it is, the gear ratios feel too close for all the power in higher settings, i find myself up to 9/10 within 50' of starting on 3/4. Changes are crisp, but under power there's a significant noise accompanying them, i expect this bike will go through chains and sprockets pretty quickly.

A two chainring setup would make this bike perfect for me, currently it just lacks the gearing for the really insanely steep stuff, with maximum assistance coming around 9mph in the slowest gear, if your cadence drops too low to maintain 9mph the assistance ramps down and you're obviously going to struggle even more. This only occurs on gradients in excess of 20% though, and short sections of steeper stuff are easily muscled up, it's just the long and very steep climbs i'd like to be able to ride.

Also worth noting that the lights are really very good, as is the ability to run them on the main battery. They do not go out when the battery cuts off power to the motor, i dont know how long they remain on, but i'd imagine a while as they wont draw much current in comparison. The mirror is also excellent, more like a motorcycle mirror than a bicycle one, i've had lots of crappy bicycle mirrors and never stuck with any of them. The mudguards work and dont rattle (I HATE rattling bit on my bikes) and the rack is huge. The remote suspension lockout is a nice touch but i'll never use the lockout, it gains you almost nothing on a short travel fork without electric power. With the electric it's completely pointless. The action of the forks is superb though, much more supple than i expected, more like a quality mountain bike fork.

Tyres, marked up as Continental Extra Light are apparently designed for higher speed use, and they seem to offer very good grip and fast rolling. I've not yet had a puncture but that's only matter of time. Brakes, as you say, are superb and i've ridden most of the top high end mountain bike hydraulic discs. These are better, just incredibly controllable with bags of power when you need it. They do have a good squeal in the wet, but are silent in the dry.

I am very happy with my purchase, perhaps a Bosch powered MTB to sit alongside it next year

 

[ghost]

Sounds like a really nice bit of kit, but than at that price it wants to be! If you want to go fast in style though it seems you have got to be paying quite a lot.

To the person asking about the tools in the video the first one was a crank arm extraction tool. I believe they are generic and easily obtained. I have 3 in my garage that I have got from places along the line, never used any of them! The second was a really guite long pair of pump pliers. The jaws can be unlatched & widened to grip various large items round, hex, square etc. They are actually incredibly versatile and I use mine an awful lot! The handle to jaw length ratio makes for a hefty grip.

I am going to post a thread in the 'what bike should I buy section' asking the following... What is the cheapest / best value bosch crank drive gents bike? So if anyone from here has a clue please contribute.