K.I.S.S ~ i.e * no batteries required * an intro to
- Thread starter YsFLY
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Now that was really interesting, had no idea.
SO no,
not what I have i mind, I start as said with what is already known and used as normal standard.
K.I.S.S~ my standard~ even knowing it isn't.
As far as I can see there is a *start point* the crank + whatever is required to power both human and mechanical machine against whatever, always a viable until fixed, and that I'm told is x watts if without human addition and x watts if a human provides some of the x.
What I need to *see* is that 'without x' against ~ reasonable wind and hill . I've given some figures to consider as a base and thought everyone knew that the law says max 15 mph before licence. So can you tell me what that would be ?
If so ~ could you then imagine an average person peddling such a machine comfortably ~ and then tell me what that x will be, and how it differs with wheel size, for now ? Please.
They've been in use for a long time, some running at the moment in the Tour de France. Indeed, the favourite to win this year has been using them.
this one looks interesting .... unsure that the weight vs power returns would work out in the real world though...kers wheels by their nature are heavy.
Flywheel Bicycle: KERS for pedal-pushers
In addition to running a number of startup businesses, I deal on a daily basis with funding new business ideas across a wide range of technologies, so i talk to a lot of brilliant people way cleverer than myself, who have many ideas i don't understand
i think the bottom line answer to your question (at least from my perspective) is that while i agree its interesting to look at new concepts and ideas, it nearly always isn't worth it. Being the designer or early adopter nearly always means being saddled (no pun intended) with nearly all of the cost and much of the pain, even if its a good working idea. The battery powered e-bike is not (that) expensive, risky or difficult, and is a proven technology that is increasing its effectiveness, with people on this forum continually honing and improving on the tech they buy/use and effectively recommend to others. This makes my cycling experience (and indeed life in general) much better than it was previously.
IMHO thats a better use of the limited investment innovation that this forum creates than designing an entirely new system (though i'm really happy if anyone out there wants to do it of course)
Flywheel Bicycle: KERS for pedal-pushers
In addition to running a number of startup businesses, I deal on a daily basis with funding new business ideas across a wide range of technologies, so i talk to a lot of brilliant people way cleverer than myself, who have many ideas i don't understand
i think the bottom line answer to your question (at least from my perspective) is that while i agree its interesting to look at new concepts and ideas, it nearly always isn't worth it. Being the designer or early adopter nearly always means being saddled (no pun intended) with nearly all of the cost and much of the pain, even if its a good working idea. The battery powered e-bike is not (that) expensive, risky or difficult, and is a proven technology that is increasing its effectiveness, with people on this forum continually honing and improving on the tech they buy/use and effectively recommend to others. This makes my cycling experience (and indeed life in general) much better than it was previously.
IMHO thats a better use of the limited investment innovation that this forum creates than designing an entirely new system (though i'm really happy if anyone out there wants to do it of course
)
I think it would be the Eureka moment, that somehow speculating on some hair brain theories it would all become clear, clear as mud
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this one looks interesting .... unsure that the weight vs power returns would work out in the real world though...kers wheels by their nature are heavy.
Flywheel Bicycle: KERS for pedal-pushers
In addition to running a number of startup businesses, I deal on a daily basis with funding new business ideas across a wide range of technologies, so i talk to a lot of brilliant people way cleverer than myself, who have many ideas i don't understand
AGAIN~ @ last someone getting the idea : AND~ not inconsequentially ~ proving * NO BATTERIES REQUIRED * Thanks.
BUT No not quite what I had in mind.
It seems that none of you as yet have any sort of A-level Physics knowledge at you finger tips, like me unfortunately. BUT~ thanks for the interest shown so far.
However~as I've said, this is a REAL attempt to help both myself and youngsters with an understanding of Physics *in the real world*, as applied to a bike and whilst the above person hints at the monetary rewards, that is not why I'm looking to involve all of you, If there is any *right* to my endeavours *Open Source* will be the way I go.
i'm glad you appreciate my paltry efforts, my physics degree was a long time ago, and i've been existing in the real world since then...so don't judge to harshly.
my point was not to make money (although that is always good) my point is that to get beyond vague concepts and forum posts, you will need some...probably quite a lot to get any kind of decent result.
Good luck with your endeavour, if your hoping to engage "open source" (another area i have quite some experience with) you might need to be a bit more open and a bit less sauce
i'm glad you appreciate my paltry efforts, my physics degree was a long time ago, and i've been existing in the real world since then...so don't judge to harshly.
my point was not to make money (although that is always good) my point is that to get beyond vague concepts and forum posts, you will need some...probably quite a lot to get any kind of decent result.
Good luck with your endeavour, if your hoping to engage "open source" (another area i have quite some experience with) you might need to be a bit more open and a bit less sauce[/QUOTE]
SORRY SIR, I didn't mean to be obnoxious AND~ I do and am indeed glad for both your contribution and the raising of the *finacial* question, for indeed that experience will be required. BUT~ a little before the cart a present.
REGARDS
LLOYD
aka YsFLY
my point was not to make money (although that is always good) my point is that to get beyond vague concepts and forum posts, you will need some...probably quite a lot to get any kind of decent result.
Good luck with your endeavour, if your hoping to engage "open source" (another area i have quite some experience with) you might need to be a bit more open and a bit less sauce
[/QUOTE]SORRY SIR, I didn't mean to be obnoxious AND~ I do and am indeed glad for both your contribution and the raising of the *finacial* question, for indeed that experience will be required. BUT~ a little before the cart a present.
REGARDS
LLOYD
aka YsFLY
There's no shortage of physics knowledge in this forum, with both engineers and scientists as members.
As ghouluk posted you needed to be far more open rather than appearing to deliberately obscure at the outset. Clear questions are the most likely to get clear and useful answers.
Even now I've no idea whether you are on some kind of perpetual motion pursuit, simply asking a question about bicycle science or asking for alternative power suggestions. If the first it's just time wasting, if the second just ask the question and the answer will be immediately forthcoming, if the third please just say so.
As ghouluk posted you needed to be far more open rather than appearing to deliberately obscure at the outset. Clear questions are the most likely to get clear and useful answers.
Even now I've no idea whether you are on some kind of perpetual motion pursuit, simply asking a question about bicycle science or asking for alternative power suggestions. If the first it's just time wasting, if the second just ask the question and the answer will be immediately forthcoming, if the third please just say so.
Dave,it's much simpler than that. You connect the pedals to a dynamo,the dynamo charges the battery,the battery powers the motor.....as long as you are turning the pedals you have infinite power....I think the sooner this hot spell is over we can all return to sanity!!!!!!!!!
KudosDave
KudosDave
D
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I'm right with Flecc. I'm an Engineer (note the capital E), and I have A-level physics, but when you post in riddles, I haven't a clue what you want. I'll give you a hint: Spell it out in simple English.
With all due respect to you all ~
I do know what you are all getting irate about, BUT~ I also know what I'm attempting to achieve and whilst I can not refute the * irate * I must say that it is not as simple as that.
( i think i said that right at the beginning *** Man I wish it was that simple ***)
AND YES ~ pass~ as requested, me and this to THAT PERSON and I will walk all of you through it, BUT~ 1st please ~ answer the Crank question for me, it is both start and fundamental to both my understanding of just what i have in mind and TO YOUR BEING ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE.
D
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NICE~ back to humour.The 'Crank' Question, is that the mechanical one, or the non-literal one
BUT~ in short the Mechanical one, although the non-literal one also has some relevance.
So you are asking:
On flat ground If bike and person is 100kg in weight and the person DOES NOT pedal. There would be a surge of energy (lets say using the throttle) to get them moving. Once moving at 15mph what wattage would be needed to keep him moving at that speed?
YES ~ @ last precisely.
BUT the real key here as far as I'm concerned is " what force is required AND for how long is 1 down push of peddle " AND ~ how does that equate to the demand upon battery.
AND~ YES I know that seems to be contradictory BUT ~ to me they are related.
D
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Weight doesn't come in to it. The theory says that you need about 100w to do 15mph on the flat, but I can imagine that that's in a crouching position and with smooth tyres. With a 185mm crank, vertical average pedal speed at a cadence of 60 is about 0.74m/s. Therefore the average vertical pedal force would be about 135N, but it depends a lot on your cadence. Obviously, the faster you pedal. the lower the force. Also the riding position and type of bike will also make a significant difference.
In my experience, on a mtb bike with normal tyres, you need about 250w from the battery to maintain 15mph on the flat, which is about 200w of output power, so you can double the figure above.
In my experience, on a mtb bike with normal tyres, you need about 250w from the battery to maintain 15mph on the flat, which is about 200w of output power, so you can double the figure above.
Happy rhat George did it first and WI think you mean George Pocock. As a user of the modern equivalent can assure you not very practical on the road (try going under a bridge
As for OP. If a cheaper option than a battery exists then pretty certain we would all be using it !!!
G,s mum was involved. but i belive WG him self had a run in carrage.
I have a Cquad, three parrafoils a NASA wing and a 12m LEI. but never realy flown the last as got to scared with 5 m para.
Back to OP
most reviews estimate 8 to 20 Watts hours per mile. the faster you go the higher the power demand. wind presure increases as a cubed law if i remember my physics. so go slow and use less energy(turtle outfit anyone?)
WELL d8veh,
i must say that that is still all Chinese to me.
BUT~ Thanks for still coming back on it. { had thought THE MOVE was a demotion in some way }
I WONDER~ would you be a Skype user, and if so would you consider a vid talk that way ? Recorded that is.
I believe I've observed something that has possibly been missed, BUT~ I'm finding that everyone wants to second guess it rather than just answer questions.
If you are as said THE MAN with all those skills, I am prepared to pay for your advice on the hour, but I'm unemployed so can't pay much AND ~ would like to, *if right*- go ahead with getting *it* made.
OH my Skype name is OneVixler, if interested.
REGARDS
LLOYD
i must say that that is still all Chinese to me.
BUT~ Thanks for still coming back on it. { had thought THE MOVE was a demotion in some way }
I WONDER~ would you be a Skype user, and if so would you consider a vid talk that way ? Recorded that is.
I believe I've observed something that has possibly been missed, BUT~ I'm finding that everyone wants to second guess it rather than just answer questions.
If you are as said THE MAN with all those skills, I am prepared to pay for your advice on the hour, but I'm unemployed so can't pay much AND ~ would like to, *if right*- go ahead with getting *it* made.
OH my Skype name is OneVixler, if interested.
REGARDS
LLOYD
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