Just returned to cycling !

[Richard Watkins]

Hi ! . I have recently bought a Urban Mover um10 elete second hand with power problems !
I have managed to get power to the LCD screen and a low voltage to rear wheel motor .
It has a Dapu Motor , Controller, and Crank Torque Sensor, i have tried to eliminate as best as i can it has a full battery which does charge and LCD screen can operate to give full pedal assist or auto but i cannot get motor to turn or engage at all.
My question really is can you still get Dapu Motor or Controllers and if so from where please ? or should i start again and fit another type of conversion kit. I do not really want to pay for another Motor if someone could tell me how energize mine to see if it works. many thanks Rich!

 

[Gaz]

Hello Richard

Gaz

 

[Richard Watkins]

Hello Richard

Gaz

Hi!

 

[Danidl]

Hi ! . I have recently bought a Urban Mover um10 elete second hand with power problems !
I have managed to get power to the LCD screen and a low voltage to rear wheel motor .
It has a Dapu Motor , Controller, and Crank Torque Sensor, i have tried to eliminate as best as i can it has a full battery which does charge and LCD screen can operate to give full pedal assist or auto but i cannot get motor to turn or engage at all.
My question really is can you still get Dapu Motor or Controllers and if so from where please ? or should i start again and fit another type of conversion kit. I do not really want to pay for another Motor if someone could tell me how energize mine to see if it works. many thanks Rich!

... When you say low voltage what do you mean?

 

[Richard Watkins]

... When you say low voltage what do you mean?

Hi! its messures 4.5 volts to motor on 2 small wires and 3rd small wire is return i think!. I have now been informed because i only have three small wires and three large it will not have Hall sensors which leads me to think its the controller ?? . Perhaps the torque sensor ? I am thinking perhaps if i fitted a throttle this would over ride the torque sensor giving me more power to motor ??

 

[Danidl]

Hi! its messures 4.5 volts to motor on 2 small wires and 3rd small wire is return i think!. I have now been informed because i only have three small wires and three large it will not have Hall sensors which leads me to think its the controller ?? . Perhaps the torque sensor ? I am thinking perhaps if i fitted a throttle this would over ride the torque sensor giving me more power to motor ??

... I would assume that this is power to a hall effect sensor. Have you been able to look at voltages on the remaining 5 wires in the cluster. .. without braking any electrical connections. ..With the battery removed, my technique for doing this would be to remove a length of the overall plastic sheath using a Stanley knife or equivalent. Trying not to interfere with the inside cables. Then using the same technique, remove a small amount of the insulation from each of these in turn . Arrange these cuts so that there is no possibility of any of them touching. Crocodile clips will enable you to measure the voltages present on each. .. if and when you get the motor running, you can put a small amount of self amalgamating tape over each small cut and then a strip of polyethylene, taken from a plastic foodbag. A generous amount of amalgamating tape to replace the missing external sheath can be applied over the polyethylene. The strip of polyethylene.is to stop the small cuts glueing to the external.
Measure the resistance between each of the thick cables .. these are the wires to the coils. There are 3 wires so there should be 3 measurements . These should be small and the same for each set of readings. If one of them is infinite or very high, then the motor is kaput. .. This next test might not work , but just might. Put your meter on AC volts and a low scale and rotate the wheel manually. If you measure any voltage, then you can be sure that that motor winding is good. If you don't it proves nothing. .. the motor may have been inoperative for so long that any residual magnetic field has died.

 

[Richard Watkins]

... I would assume that this is power to a hall effect sensor. Have you been able to look at voltages on the remaining 5 wires in the cluster. .. without braking any electrical connections. ..With the battery removed, my technique for doing this would be to remove a length of the overall plastic sheath using a Stanley knife or equivalent. Trying not to interfere with the inside cables. Then using the same technique, remove a small amount of the insulation from each of these in turn . Arrange these cuts so that there is no possibility of any of them touching. Crocodile clips will enable you to measure the voltages present on each. .. if and when you get the motor running, you can put a small amount of self amalgamating tape over each small cut and then a strip of polyethylene, taken from a plastic foodbag. A generous amount of amalgamating tape to replace the missing external sheath can be applied over the polyethylene. The strip of polyethylene.is to stop the small cuts glueing to the external.
Measure the resistance between each of the thick cables .. these are the wires to the coils. There are 3 wires so there should be 3 measurements . These should be small and the same for each set of readings. If one of them is infinite or very high, then the motor is kaput. .. This next test might not work , but just might. Put your meter on AC volts and a low scale and rotate the wheel manually. If you measure any voltage, then you can be sure that that motor winding is good. If you don't it proves nothing. .. the motor may have been inoperative for so long that any residual magnetic field has died.

Hi! Thanks for your info I will try tommorow and reply any findings

 

[Nealh]

Rather then messing around cutting any wires/sheathing etc and then having to bodge/ repair follow the wires to its connection block and you should be able to stick the dvm probes in to the back of the block.

 

[Richard Watkins]

Yes I have been thinking about how I will do that I will try tomorrow! Thanks

 

[Deleted member 4366]

All motors and controllers work the same. They're actually normally very reliable, so don't go buying new parts or destroying anything until you have found the problem by using logic and measurement.

The LCD works independently from the motor controller. It works as a switch for the controller, and it also has it's own microprocessor which gives some instructions to the controller.

The fact that you have 5v on one of the motor wires implies that the controller has been switched on by the LCD, so there's probably nothing wrong with the controller or LCD.

First obvious question: How did it fail? Were you going along, hit a bump and it stopped; fell off the bike and it didn't work afterwards; parked up the bike when it was working, but it didn't work in the morning; left it in a damp shed for three months, and it didn't work when you brought it out; or what?

First step to eliminate the most common cause is to charge the battery, leave it for half an hour, then measure its voltage.

Next step to eliminate the 2nd most common cause of bike not working. Follow the brake cables to the controller and disconnect them at the first connector you come to. See if it then works.

When you come back with the answers to those questions, we can tell you how to get to the cause of your problem and how to remedy it. It'll be a lot quicker if you keep an open mind and stick to the logical tests/measurements.

 

[Richard Watkins]

All motors and controllers work the same. They're actually normally very reliable, so don't go buying new parts or destroying anything until you have found the problem by using logic and measurement.

The LCD works independently from the motor controller. It works as a switch for the controller, and it also has it's own microprocessor which gives some instructions to the controller.

The fact that you have 5v on one of the motor wires implies that the controller has been switched on by the LCD, so there's probably nothing wrong with the controller or LCD.

First obvious question: How did it fail? Were you going along, hit a bump and it stopped; fell off the bike and it didn't work afterwards; parked up the bike when it was working, but it didn't work in the morning; left it in a damp shed for three months, and it didn't work when you brought it out; or what?

First step to eliminate the most common cause is to charge the battery, leave it for half an hour, then measure its voltage.

Next step to eliminate the 2nd most common cause of bike not working. Follow the brake cables to the controller and disconnect them at the first connector you come to. See if it then works.

When you come back with the answers to those questions, we can tell you how to get to the cause of your problem and how to remedy it. It'll be a lot quicker if you keep an open mind and stick to the logical tests/measurements.

Hi! Thank You for your input!
I actually bought the bike as a none runner with no power and nothing working, i found one of the multi wire connectors up to the LCD was twisted and not connected properly, so i connected correctly and checked the battery power which showed 41v which i took as ok! connect up and LCD lit up so then had power ! at least !. Next i tried to work the motor but nothing happened no no bad noises or anything. So i checked to see if any power to motor and have six wires to motor three thick which go to stater i believe and three small which i think are Hall sensor wires. I get 4.9v of two of the small wires nothing from third. Now heres the thing these small wires are not the colours many people tell me they should be. They are white black red not green yellow blue. I also believe my Dapu Motor could have Hall Sensors or not. Dapu and UrbanMover are useless no replies to any question as to spares or questions etc!.
I would really like to put power to motor directly but will not not knowing if it has Hall Sensors.By the way its a 36v batttery and a 250w motor.I have also as somebody kindly surgested span the wheel slowly to see if any low voltage from motor but none!

 

[mw1]

would really like to put power to motor directly but will not not knowing if it has Hall Sensors.

Hi. Being a brushless motor, you can't power it up directly - it has to be through a controller. I think you would probably damage it by trying.
Regards, Mark
Here's a reply from D8veh I got a while back regarding a similarly wired motor I have :
d8vehPedelecer
The three thin wires are for a speed sensor or temperature sensor. If it has red and black wires, they'll be the 5v supply and the third wire is the signal. If the signal is a fixed voltage, it's a temperature sensor. if it pulses it's a speed sensor.
Hope this helps.

 

[Nealh]

Richard your hub is unsensored if it was a sensored hub you would have 8 or 9 wires from it, 3 thick phase wires and 5 thinner sensing wires or 6 if there was an internal speed sensor. As mentioned the 3 thin ones will be for another use.
Has your bike got a wheel speed sensor and spoke magnet.

 

[Danidl]

Hi. Being a brushless motor, you can't power it up directly - it has to be through a controller. I think you would probably damage it by trying.
Regards, Mark
Here's a reply from D8veh I got a while back regarding a similarly wired motor I have :
d8vehPedelecer
The three thin wires are for a speed sensor or temperature sensor. If it has red and black wires, they'll be the 5v supply and the third wire is the signal. If the signal is a fixed voltage, it's a temperature sensor. if it pulses it's a speed sensor.
Hope this helps.

... I have an earlier model from UrbanMover, a folder and it would have had 6 wires going from the controller , which was mounted below the peddles and the motor on the back wheel. When I needed to get the rear cogs replaced I had to cut the cable assembly so that the removal tool would fit. Rejoining the wires , soldering and then covering them as i previously suggested, works out very well.
The three thin wires are for hall effect sensors used to measure the position of the wheel in respect of the three motor coils. I believe that one of these thin wires is the power return for the hall devices .
The three thick wires are for the motor. Do not put a DC voltage on them. They need to be driven by the controller.
If you open the controller housing . In my case this was embedded in an aluminium box, you may be able to follow the wiring.
The UrbanMovers, were an expensive brand at the time and had a few fectures which might stop them working.
1. They had switches in the brake handles to cut power whenever the brake was depressed. If either of these have gone open circuit this will stop power.
2 They has PAS .. where by there is a pressure torque sensor attached to the chain wheel and it requires rotation for the motor to have power.
3. In my model there was also a throttle knob and a set of LEDs showing battery state. If yours is a later model it's motor will be more powerful and you will have LCD.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's worrying that wires to the LCD were damaged because two of them carry battery voltage. If they touch any of the others, it would wipe out the cpus in either the LCD or controller or both, but if the LCD is working, that's a good sign.

The LCD works independently from the controller. It has its own CPU and battery supply. They normally have 5 wires. One (often red) is the battery supply; one is ground (black). When you switch on the LCD, it latches a third wire (blue or orange) to the battery voltage one. That wire then runs down to and powers the controller. The other two wires (can be any colour) are tx and rx data to send and receive instructions to the controller. The LCD can, therefore, appear to work even though it's faulty.

When the controller gets its power from the LCD, it switches on. The battery voltage is cut down first to 12v and then to 5v to work all the sensors and the CPU. The main battery wires go directly to the motor, but the power is blocked by the mosfets. Only the controllers CPU can open the mosfets in the right sequence to work the motor. When you have 5v on the motor sensor wires, your controller is switched on, which is a good sign.

If you have a throttle, you can eliminate the LCD by bridging the controller's supply wire to the battery wire, but you have to be sure that you have the right wires. there's a safe way to do that, which i'll describe later.

To diagnose faults without the history, you need to check everything. Show us what connectors you have on the controller so that we can give appropriate advice.

Still waiting for battery voltage measurement.