Just got knocked of the bike...

[Mussels]

Seriously though, does any commuting cyclist not wear fluorescent these days? Every regular cyclist I see does round my way. You'd have to be stupid or have a death wish not to. I once saw a guy round my way (one off, probably dead now) cycling along in all black with no lights on at dusk. I had to double take I was so shocked.

The trouble is that being seen is only part of the battle (but the most important part in my opinion). Driver's impatience and self belief in their ability to "just" miss you is the part you can't do anything about. I'm glad I don't live down south though, every time I get anywhere near the M25 it seems like sanity goes out the window and you're lucky to escape with your life, and that's in a car! God knows how you south easteners survive on bikes. I take my hat off to you.

Most commuters I see do not wear flourescent clothing, they have good lights for poor visability but wearing yellow doesn't help much.

 

[Lloyd]

It's not just Londoners, whilst commuting through the peaceful village of Mountsorrel in Leicestershire last year I got done twice in 2 weeks. First time sent totally over the bars by a woman pulling out of a side road, and the second time was almost unbelievable. I was knocked off the road by a police community support officer car.

Both occasions I was in a painted cycle lane, after this I road out of the lane on the road and survived unscathed for many more months. Weird.

 

[lemmy]

There is a nasty tendency in England for people to take the point of view that if you are not wearing a yellow jacket, have flashing lamps in daylight etc, that somehow any accident you have is 'your own fault'.

It's essentially a paternalistic view 'if only you would listen to me your life would be better'. Anyone who is familiar with Orwell will know the pattern.

Accidents happen and always will. The cause is usually lack of care and/ or attention and cyclists, being human, are subject to it too.

A week ago a biker was sent flying by a car pulling out of the junction where my road meets the main road. He wasn't badly hurt, luckily, though the bike was heavily damaged. This was a large Honda bike with fairing and daylight headlamp. The rider wore a yellow jacket. If the driver says he didn't see the bike, he is lying or blind - he did look down the road and such a bike is unmissable.

As far as I could tell, what happened was the the car driver was more concerned with getting across the junction quickly than the bikers safety, so he took a chance. And the biker lost, as they and cyclists usually do.

One thing is certain. If the car driver had felt his own life was seriously threatened he would not have done it. If the bike was perceived as a 'threat' to his own well being he would have 'seen' it.

 

[eTim]

I was knocked off the road by a police community support officer car.

Says it all really........


YouTube - ‪BEING A PCSO - POLICE COMMUNITY SUPPORT OFFICER‬‎

 

[Old Timer]

Most commuters I see do not wear flourescent clothing, they have good lights for poor visability but wearing yellow doesn't help much.

Your joking! right?

So all the construction workers and motorway staff and vehicles have got it wrong then

 

[lemmy]

Your joking! right?

So all the construction workers and motorway staff and vehicles have got it wrong then

I have to say I admire your blind faith in the sagacity of officialdom

Why do you think that someone who cannot see a moving object 6 feet high by 2 feet wide no more than 15 feet from them, will see it any better if a part of it is coloured yellow?

If someone cannot see an object that size, they must surely be walking into lamp posts, walls, parking meters all the time.

 

[Caph]

will see it any better if a part of it is coloured yellow?

It's not yellow we're talking about Lemmy, it's high-visibility clothing which is normally fluorescent. Fluorescent is a lot more visible than a normal colour such as yellow. That's the reason why why it is worn in high risk areas such as on building sites.

Are you seriously asking if someone would be more likely to notice a person in a high-visibility jacket than a person wearing a dark jacket???

 

[Mussels]

It's not yellow we're talking about Lemmy, it's high-visibility clothing which is normally fluorescent. Fluorescent is a lot more visible than a normal colour such as yellow. That's the reason why why it is worn in high risk areas such as on building sites.

Are you seriously asking if someone would be more likely to notice a person in a high-visibility jacket than a person wearing a dark jacket???

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?
Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?
Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

You cannot beat defensive riding and being aware of what's going on around you, my favorite saying is :- don't look where you're going, look where you're going to go. Treat all other road users as if they want to kill you (especially if your user name is Grizzly bear on Pedelecs forum and you wind people up !!!)

Griz

 

[allen-uk]

You cannot beat defensive riding..... Treat all other road users as if they want to kill you

Absolutely, Grizzly. The same certainly goes for driving a car, and quite possibly being a pedestrian, too.


A.

 

[flecc]

Also fully agreed Griz, defensive riding and driving too, is always best.
.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Also fully agreed Griz, defensive riding and driving too, is always best.
.

Tony you know what these days it's defensive everything, even posting on this forum hey?

Griz

 

[flecc]

Tony you know what these days it's defensive everything, even posting on this forum hey?

Griz

Yes, I found that out years ago!
.

 

[NRG]

Defensive riding and driving go hand in hand, organizations like the IAM do a lot of work to promote this, shame more people do not take it up

Welcome to IAM Cycling! | Welcome

 

[Caph]

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?
Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

Mussels, being seen IS important, you know it, I know it, and everyone on this board knows it. High-viz is the easiest way to maximise visibility in daylight. If you don't want to wear it, fine, but please don't try and underplay its importance for cyclists.

I do agree that flashing lights are a good idea, even in daylight, although I'm not sure of the advantage of poles. I think eye level would capture most attention since that's where most of us look. Anything that catches attention can only do good!

 

[Mussels]

Mussels, being seen IS important, you know it, I know it, and everyone on this board knows it. High-viz is the easiest way to maximise visibility in daylight. If you don't want to wear it, fine, but please don't try and underplay its importance for cyclists.

I do agree that flashing lights are a good idea, even in daylight, although I'm not sure of the advantage of poles. I think eye level would capture most attention since that's where most of us look. Anything that catches attention can only do good!

I agree that being seen is important and that high vis is an easy way to increase visibility but I think that many people overplay it's importance. For a complete novice that rides along in the gutter it's better than nothing but it's not a substitute for observation and road positioning, the problem is worse when the novice in the gutter thinks he is safe.
Surroundings play an important part as well, if I was out in the countryside then I might put more importance on it but in the metropolis with it's myriad of bright colours and things going on a high vis vest doesn't stand out. If the rider in high vis believes they will be seen then they will soon become a statistic.
From what I have seen male riders are less likely to wear high vis than women. Although high vis doesn't cause accidents itself it doesn't seem to help much.
Women cyclists 'at greater risk from lorry deaths' | UK news | The Guardian

 

[allen-uk]

Well, I'm lucky (?) enough to live in the sodding Metropolis, visual distractions and all, and Mussels does have a point.

And I only mention this as it has relevance to this discussion, but I have passed the IAM test, so even if my driving ain't perfect, it has certainly been closely observed and honed to the point where it meets certain standards of observation and control. As a DRIVER, therefore, I am only too glad when a cyclist appears with a flashing light and a bright jacket, certainly if the opposite is some burk dressed in black, sans lights, who treats roads and pavements as a playground.

Allen.