Juicy Classic Dutch or Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch?

[kazumadesu]

Hello, I'm going to be buying my first electric bike and am currently looking at two choices; the Juicy Classic Dutch for £1085 and the Apache Wakita City for 1200 Euros/£1100. They're both step-throughs and look really nice in my opinion. The major differences are that :

• The Juicy only has a 300Wh 10Ah battery whilst the Apache has a 470Wh 16Ah battery
• Juicy has rigid suspension whilst Apache has Suntour NEX HLO suspension fork with a crown lockout
• Juicy has LED panel whilst Apache has LCD (not a big difference tbh)
• Juicy has disc brakes whilst Apache has normal V-brakes
• Juicy is a British company whilst Apache is Czech so has to be bought online from greatebike.eu (anyone used them? parent company is ekolo.cz which seems to be a well-reviewed Czech company on google)
• Can test ride Juicy classic near my house, can't test ride the Apache, although both are rear-hub motors
• Juicy offers finance whereas I would have to pay upfront for the Apache
• Juicy has 12 months warranty whilst Apache has 24 months warranty for frame and components & 12 months for battery - but I need to get a warranty inspection done within 3 months of purchase at their service partner in London

From this it looks as if the Apache Wakita is the winner but I wanted to get other people's opinions on here. For example if anyone has used either of these bikes or the brands before or whether I can find something cheaper but similar. My normal commute would be around 10 miles on flat ground to uni 3 times a week but I would like to go cycling around country parks near/in London (e.g. Richmond Park, Lee Valley, South Downs) from time to time when the weather's good.

Juicy Dutch Classic: https://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-electric-bicycle
Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch: https://apache-bike.cz/en/catalogue/product/wakita-city-26

 

[Woosh]

Exact dealer margin is the unknown quantity, it could be 35 or 40%.

if that were true,

@ 25%: £916-£225 = £687 for the manufactuer.
@40%: £916 - £366.40 = £549.60
less import duty, wages, promotional budget, storage, delivery to the dealer, freight, waste disposal, product liability insurance and assembly labour.

there is little money left to spend on the bike itself.

 

[RobF]

Again as I posted previously, dealer margins on ebikes are generally lower than on pushbikes.

Having said that, my local bike shop has just been promoted to 35 percent on Haibikes because they've sold a few.

They get more than that on Cannondale pushbikes, partly because they've stuck with the brand through thick and thin over many years.

 

[kazumadesu]

On an £1100 bike?
VAT: £183.33, ex VAT: £916
His gross margin is about 25% on £916 = £229.
Your credit card costs him 2%, £22.
He's spent money on your demo bike and maybe an hour on advising you.
Then he'll spend another hour to prep the bike for you.
Have pity on him.

I didn't mean to cut the guy's profit that much sorry! :O It's £150 off a £1300/£1400 bike (essentially a discount on the battery upgrade and not the bike itself), not an £1100 bike. It's very likely I'll be a repeat customer due to yearly servicing and any other accessories I'd want to buy, so I will still give him some more profit.

 

[Woosh]

if you intend on spending £1300-£1400, then your range of bikes is considerably enlarged.
example:

Buy a Wisper 705se Stealth 24" Wheel Electric Bike - Blue From E-Bikes Direct

Wisper 705se Stealth 24" Wheel Electric Bike - Blue - eBikes Direct

www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk

Still, dealers need a minimum of 20% margin to survive.
It's a tough life, he may have spent an hour with every enquirer, only one out of five will buy from him. 5% negotiation is OK if you pay with a debit card but beyond that, something needs to be cut, and that may be his integrity.

 

[RobF]

Still, dealers need a minimum of 20% margin to survive.
It's a tough life,

Says a direct seller whose business model is to bypass dealers.

Nothing wrong with that, but you are in a glass house when it comes to throwing stones at the conduct of a retail customer.

Give the OP a break.

 

[Woosh]

Says a direct seller whose business model is to bypass dealers.

Nothing wrong with that, but you are in a glass house when it comes to throwing stones at the conduct of a retail customer.

Give the OP a break.

I am very aware of the tight margin on e-bike sales because of a) proliferation of outlets such as Halfords which operate on a mixed model internet + shop and b) some consumers come to your shop to get advice and demo then buy on the internet to save some money.

I operate in a similar way to Dell's business model with computers: integrate vertically to ensure quality and uniformity of products and after sale service. If you buy a PC from Dell website, Dell engineers can fix your PC as quickly if not more quickly than BT fixing your phone line.

my business model does not hurt the dealers. I only sell 12 models, they have access to 50+ models. Their problem is the internet shops that sell the same models, not my range of 12.

I encourage bike shops to convert bikes. They deliver a superior product. Just think of what bike you can get with a £1,300 budget if you go for conversion from your local bike shop.
They get the margin on the mechanical bike, discount on the kit and income from fitting the kit.

 

[RobF]

It's a relatively free market.

I have bought from Rose in the past.

Their slogan 'bike assembly in Germany' is accurate, and I see you use something similar.

But let's not kid ourselves, every bike sold by the likes of Rose and woosh is a bike sale lost to a local bike shop.

 

[Woosh]

It's a relatively free market.

I have bought from Rose in the past.

Their slogan 'bike assembly in Germany' is accurate, and I see you use something similar.

But let's not kid ourselves, every bike sold by the likes of Rose and woosh is a bike sale lost to a local bike shop.

Honestly, I don't think I am a threat to any bike shop.
Bike Base in Southend is about 100m from my shop, just on the opposite side of my street.
They sell conventional bikes, Giant, Raleigh, Genesis, Ammaco bikes in conjunction with Wisper, Haibike etc.
There are 16 other bike shops in Southend. Only one closure I know of in the last three years, that was my friend Richard's shop by the rail station and he only did servicing, not sale.

 

[Nealh]

If I lived in Southend then Woosh I would considered a bike shop, despite the fact they are not a regular type of vendor that sells all manner of spares and bikes.
They are a just a bit different having a niche brand selling and offering bikes /conversion kits.

 

[zerodrum]

RobF and whoosh. It's tough out there for everyone. OP can ask for discount. Retailer knows his margins and stock turnover. Respect for anyone running their own business and keeping their head above water.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

if you want the best deal, like most items - buy out of season. A retailer will be more willing to do a deal then or alternatively buy last seasons model.

One thing I would like to see change is models not changing every year. Only change things when needed e.g. new motor etc. Sometimes it seems little changes apart from cosmetically. Conversely there are a lot of changes if you are buying a Bosch ebike this year.

 

[Woosh]

Respect for anyone running their own business and keeping their head above water.

A customer came late yesterday collecting her C2W bike.
Her boyfriend used to run a bike shop but he could not earn a living from it. He is now a mobile mechanic, much less overheads.
I wonder if they would consider converting bikes.

 

[sjpt]

One thing I would like to see change is models not changing every year. Only change things when needed e.g. new motor etc.

Basically I agree. Sometimes a change will be forced by unavailability (or increased price) of some component.