Jan 2016 Throttle Regulations

[flecc]

Am I reading this wrong?
Extract from Dft

The full response from the DfT reads:
“In response to your email about converting a normal pedal cycle which has first been used on the public road as a pedal cycle, I am pleased to report that type approval does not apply – it only applies to new vehicles, not converted ones. Therefore if you convert a pedal cycle which has already been ridden on the road to “twist and go” operation, it does not become subject to type approval. As previously noted, the regulations will be directed at the manufacturers and so riders making conversions are not committing an offence.

No, you are not reading it wrong Andy, the DfT have been ducking and diving around this issue since November 2003.

What they've said is true in each detail, but if any claim arose where the bike could be shown to be post January 2016, a court will use whatever evidence is available. They don't take kindly to attempts to hair-split so could refuse to accept there's any difference between a conversion and a pre-build and use the available regulation on what a pedelec should be. That's the senior courts job, defining the spirit of the law, and clearly that's no throttles in this case.

Of course if a case could be made that the bike is post January 2016, no problem, at least until new regulations arrive in 2018.

Overall there's no chance of the police prosecuting since the DfT could intervene to block prosecution as they've already done on the power issue, 200 watts versus 250 watts.

But this is my view of the law as it stands, revealing every possibility of coming unstuck. In reality it's very unlikely anyone ever will, but I can't guarantee that.
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[Andy88]

That's a different matter if the bike is being claimed to be pre January 2016 of course. If that's accepted no law is broken.
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Yes, but if a kit and the frame 2014, motor 2016, controller 2015, pedals 2016, etc etc or any other combination how does that work?

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[Andy88]

No, you are not reading it wrong Andy, the DfT have been ducking and diving around this issue since November 2003.

What they've said is true in each detail, but if any claim arose where the bike could be shown to be post January 2016, a court will use whatever evidence is available. They don't take kindly to attempts to hair-split so could refuse to accept there's any difference between a conversion and a pre-build and use the available regulation on what a pedelec should be. That's the senior courts job, defining the spirit of the law, and clearly that's no throttles in this case.

Of course if a case could be made that the bike is post January 2016, no problem, at least until new regulations arrive in 2018.

Overall there's no chance of the police prosecuting since the DfT could intervene to block prosecution as they've already done on the power issue, 200 watts versus 250 watts.

But this is my view of the law as it stands, revealing every possibility of coming unstuck. In reality it's very unlikely anyone ever will, but I can't guarantee that.
.

Right, that's exactly as I see it. But in my opinion there should be age restrictions on this issue as there are genuine cases age 60 plus with leg problems should be allowed even if it meant taking some kind of test like the cbt.

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[Andy88]

This is where the law leaves itself wide open, when you grandfather a rule based on a time stamp but the subject of the rule can be made up of parts pre time stamp the law falls flat on its face.

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[flecc]

This is where the law leaves itself wide open, when you grandfather a rule based on a time stamp but the subject of the rule can be made up of parts pre time stamp the law falls flat on its face.

I agree Andy, this whole position of pedelec law in the UK has been a shambles since November 2003 when the DfT messed up the integration of EU law with ours, It took 12 years to address that but still left this silly anomally due to differences in how the EU deal with kit builds,

The best defence in the very unlikely event of ever being challenged is possession of that DfT communication saying the law doesn't apply to a conversion build. That would definitely block a prosecution and probably be effective against any civil claim.

In January 2018 the new EU type approval law comes into force which might change things since we won't have actually left the EU by then. More fun to look forward to!
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[Andy88]

I agree Andy, this whole position of pedelec law in the UK has been a shambles since November 2003 when the DfT messed up the integration of EU law with ours, It took 12 years to address that but still left this silly anomally due to differences in how the EU deal with kit builds,

The best defence in the very unlikely event of ever being challenged is possession of that DfT communication saying the law doesn't apply to a conversion build. That would definitely block a prosecution and probably be effective against any civil claim.

In January 2018 the new EU type approval law comes into force which might change things since we won't have actually left the EU by then. More fun to look forward to!
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Thanks for the discussion

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[flecc]

Right, that's exactly as I see it. But in my opinion there should be age restrictions on this issue as there are genuine cases age 60 plus with leg problems should be allowed even if it meant taking some kind of test like the cbt.

They do have a very good excuse on this Andy. There is a Low Powered Moped class (L1e-A) which not only allows a throttle but also up to 1000 watts, which would be a great help for such persons. The same 15.5 mph applies but the snag is that it's treated as a motor cycle, needing Type Approval, group Q driving licence, m/c Helmet, insurance, registration and number plate.
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[Andy88]

They do have a very good excuse on this Andy. There is a Low Powered Moped class (L1e-A) which not only allows a throttle but also up to 1000 watts, which would be a great help for such persons. The same 15.5 mph applies but the snag is that it's treated as a motor cycle, needing Type Approval, group Q driving licence, m/c Helmet, insurance, registration and number plate.
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The problem here would be the sight test, which you would need to pass for insurance purposes, same as cbt have to be able to read a number plate from 25 meters. Im buggered if I can pick the letters out at 25m if I could I would just buy a 50cc scooter and gave done with it. LOL

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[flecc]

The problem here would be the sight test, which you would need to pass for insurance purposes, same as cbt have to be able to read a number plate from 25 meters. Im buggered if I can pick the letters out at 25m if I could I would just buy a 50cc scooter and gave done with it. LOL

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. My sight was getting marginal at 77 due to developing cataracts, but I chose the private route to get a better job than the NHS are able offer and in most respects can now see better than when I was a teenager. And all without glasses too, distance and reading.
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[Andy88]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. My sight was getting marginal at 77 due to developing cataracts, but I chose the private route to get a better job than the NHS are able offer and in most respects can now see better than when I was a teenager. And all without glasses too, distance and reading.
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Yes, I will get my eyes looked at when I'm back in the uk early in 2017.

This getting old isn't what its cracked up to be but been driving scooters in Asia for 25 years without one single accident.



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[flecc]

This getting old isn't what its cracked up to be but been driving scooters in Asia for 25 years without one single accident.

That would be a good record in the UK, in Asian road conditions it's remarkable!
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