It's a long way home with no power.

Electric bikes seem like a great idea, but what happens when your batteries go flat or your electrics fail miles from home:( . The lighter bikes I guess would not be too much of a problem to get home, but some of the behemoths with sla batteries and full suspension I think would be a nightmare:eek:

Does anyone have experience of this?.

 

Martin

It's rarely happened to me as, if in doubt, I carry a spare battery. But my experience is that running out is fine as long as you have the right gears for the terrain. Then its very like riding a normal bike.

 

It happened to me a couple of times with my old Powabyke, when I went on long rides (c.40 miles). The Powabyke had 21 gears. At least 17 of which you only ever use with a flat battery! I just rode it home in a lower gear. As a steel framed bike it isn't bad to ride, and the old brushed motor doesn't give much cogging resistance. One time was in a hilly part of Wales and I got up a couple of steep ones using the bottom 'megarange' gear. On the flat the weight isn't a factor.

 

On my wife's Powacycle I had it once. There aren't so many gears, but it is ok to ride unpowered too. A little bit more resistance than the Powabyke but I got home fine.

 

My Wisper has an enormous battery that I've not got near to running down but I've ridden it unpowered for stretches, to see what its like. Again its fine. Perfectlyy rideable but slightly heavy and high geared.

 

If you get a Panasonic-powered bike (eg Lafree/Gazelle/Agattu), riding with no battery, you are riding a normal bike!

 

Frank

It's rarely happened to me as, if in doubt, I carry a spare battery. But my experience is that running out is fine as long as you have the right gears for the terrain. Then its very like riding a normal bike.

 

It happened to me a couple of times with my old Powabyke, when I went on long rides (c.40 miles). The Powabyke had 21 gears. At least 17 of which you only ever use with a flat battery! I just rode it home in a lower gear. As a steel framed bike it isn't bad to ride, and the old brushed motor doesn't give much cogging resistance. One time was in a hilly part of Wales and I got up a couple of steep ones using the bottom 'megarange' gear. On the flat the weight isn't a factor.

 

On my wife's Powacycle I had it once. There aren't so many gears, but it is ok to ride unpowered too. A little bit more resistance than the Powabyke but I got home fine.

 

My Wisper has an enormous battery that I've not got near to running down but I've ridden it unpowered for stretches, to see what its like. Again its fine. Perfectlyy rideable but slightly heavy and high geared.

 

If you get a Panasonic-powered bike (eg Lafree/Gazelle/Agattu), riding with no battery, you are riding a normal bike!

 

Frank

 

Thanks Frank.

So without wishing to open a can of worms. I realise the Panasonic system has the least amount of drag, but of the hub motors which would you say was best with the power off.

 

ps How do I just show a small section of quote, rather than the whole thing?

 

Martin

Just delete the words you don't want after raising the quote Martin.

 

Direct drive motors have the least drag usually, since they have no orbital gears to be turned. Most geared hub motors have freewheels disconnecting the motor itself, but the orbital gears are still connected to the hub shell and turn when cycling only, so there's some drag.

 

Personally I hate pedalling geared hub motor bikes without power, but that's probably because I've always lived in a very hilly area where the extra bit of drag is the proverbial last straw.

.

Hi Martin

Thanks Frank.

So without wishing to open a can of worms. I realise the Panasonic system has the least amount of drag, but of the hub motors which would you say was best with the power off.

 

ps How do I just show a small section of quote, rather than the whole thing?

 

Martin

 

Easiest one first - to cut unwanted text when quoting, simply delete what you don't want from between the {QUOTE} and {/QUOTE} markers (for { } read [ ] ) when typing your reply: only what you leave there will be quoted .

 

Your other question would be better answered by someone with more experience of different bikes than me, but in short there can be quite a difference between bikes & motors in that respect. I find my Torq (brushless, geared motor) to be acceptable as fairly 'minimum' drag when freewheeling or riding with power off, given that the internal gearing cogs are always engaged, whereas I found noticeably more retardation freewheeling downhill on an Ezee Liv (brushed motor) for instance, and maybe even the Ezee Cadence (same motor as Ezee Sprint I think).

 

If you see the nano motor/tongxin threads, that motor apparently has quite low freewheel drag (no cog gears), but can slip in high torque situations. The Giant Suede & Twist 2 motor doesn't have a freewheel to isolate the motor so is harder to pedal unpowered, from what I hear, and I recall a member saying some of the Synergie bikes had very apparent drag when freewheeling.

 

So maybe the best thing is to try some out if you can and hopefully other members will have more experience on other bikes to comment on this :-). Also, best try to find a bike thats reliable, electrics & parts-wise, and with sufficient range to get you home, to avoid the situation if possible :-) or just get one which rides like a bike unpowered i.e. a panasonic! They seem likely to be very reliable too.

 

In the context of your original question though, I agree with Frank's post and although I'd rather be riding a panasonic if my battery was flat, I've ridden the Torq ok in that way, though much depends on rider fitness and gearing (my Torq has modified & rather lower gearing than the original standard) and terrain - my area is much flatter than flecc's, so not so much the last straw here!

 

Stuart.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by coops

If you see the nano motor/tongxin threads, that motor apparently has quite low freewheel drag

 

In running through what the electric bikes I do/have owned are like without power, I actually forgot to mention the one I have with a Tongxin motor!

 

It has no noticeable resistance and I ride it as a normal bike.

 

Frank

Electric bikes seem like a great idea, but what happens when your batteries go flat .... some of the behemoths with sla batteries and full suspension I think would be a nightmare

 

I have ridden my sla mountain bike without power and I think I could make it home.

 

As a point of interest - It would appear (as I have just discovered) my sla mountain bike produces a "regeneration current" when the power is turned off - sends charge back to the battery

 

So if mine goes flat and I have enough leg power I could find a nice flat road (bit hard in Cornwall as it's all hills) and cycle up and down to recharge my battery - in theory

.

dont think i want to ride my Quando home without power,like a "normal bike" is not the phrase i would use when it has or hasnt got power...its a smart wheel barrow with a motor, great when you got a motor but not the easiest push without...have i summed it up how you would put it Flecc ???..or are you just fitter then me..lol...

No, that's a fair summing up Keith. I once ran out of power only a couple of hundred yards from home, most of that being 2% up at most, but trying to get it to 10 mph was a huge struggle! And as for the final 14%, I pushed it up there.

 

Yet the wheel spins very freely by hand, and it's the motor the Torq uses anyway. Much of the difficulty is due to other factors in the design, it's more an electric bike, rather than an electric assist bike, as I know you'll understand from your own experience.

.

however for saying this one thing, or should i say yet ANOTHER thing im really pleased about my Quando is when im approaching a junction or anywhere for that matter and cut the power it still free rolls very well, much better then pedleing alone, my other bike used to drag a lot as soon as power was off, but this was a much pleaseing aspect,i like to be under non power and in comtrol as i approach a stop...as soon as i pluck up courage or leg power im going to take it on a purely peddle assist run and see how far i can get..im guessing as 22 on power alone i might just be able to get around 30-35 ??? on pedle assist.

.im guessing as 22 on power alone i might just be able to get around 30-35 ??? on pedle assist.

 

If you last that long Keith! It's a tough call on a Quando, as you'll either be riding slowly for three hours or spinning like mad for two hours.

 

Unless you have a 30 mile long downhill stretch.

.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by flecc

I suppose a major limiting factor in terms of range & pedal assist for the Quando is its single 58" gear, especially in hills, hence the Q-bike , but the motor freewheels relatively well as you say Keith and at least the motor is geared for hills in 20" wheels, if the gearset isn't .

 

Its a good question though, about ease of riding without motor power, and one which doesn't seem immediately obvious (it wasn't to me!) when thinking about buying an electric bike, unless one is a regular cyclist or technically minded perhaps .

 

In terms of the bike weight question in your original query Martin, it surprised me just how much heavier a 35-40kg steel-framed & lead-acid battery bike felt & handled compared to a 25kg alloy framed & NiMH/lithium battery bike, and there is always a penalty on hills too: even 25kg is heavy compared to a modern lightweight bike & I don't think I'd be happy or comfortable to ride anything heavier than that on a regular basis.

 

Stuart.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by coops

If you last that long Keith! It's a tough call on a Quando, as you'll either be riding slowly for three hours or spinning like mad for two hours.

 

Unless you have a 30 mile long downhill stretch.

.

 

 

i went down this stretch of road on way home today, wasnt steep hills or anything like where you live but i soon got up to 18.5mph and was most pleased/rather nervous...happy on a stright bit but not round no bends at that speed, my new wider handle bars sure help but its no less scraey then a helter skelter on a folder, 15 seems to be going no where really fast but what a difference 3.5 mph makes..

I don't think that a power or battery failure would be too much of a problem on my Torq Trekking , as I have tried cycling with no power recently , and there is minimal resistance , and it feels not a great difference from my ordinary bike but my concern would be to have a puncture a long way from home.( I guess it depends how far from home you are)

 

I have just taken off the back wheel and found that not only do I need a 15mm spanner for the wheel nuts but a 10mm for the brake cable bracket.

 

Good job that "puncture resistant " tyres are fitted.

Just bought a spare inner tube ---- just in case!!!!

 

Moral of the story --be prepared- always take a tool kit , perhaps not a spare battery-- too heavy!!!!!!!

Never was a boy scout though:p

And best have two 10 mm spanners David, I've found the bolt and but stubbornly turning together. Sounds like it's needs are the same as the Torq one's.

.

I suppose a major limiting factor in terms of range & pedal assist for the Quando is its single 58" gear,

 

It's actually 69" Stuart, but still quite low for a single gear.

 

It started out in life as a 54" gear, but eZee soon corrected that, changing the 18 tooth freewheel for a 14 tooth BMX one.

.

I'm glad to hear you're having a good experience with the Torq Trekking David .

 

Puncture risk is a concern to me too, the standard Kenda K-shield do offer good puncture protection: several Torq owners have now fitted highly puncture resistant marathon plus (schwalbe) tyres, usually size 700C x 38, to minimise the risk & inconvenience of flats far from base and for lower rolling resistance too: I was a bit nervous of making changes to my Torq at first, but it has been extremely rewarding and worthwhile, especially the throttle mod - at least you probably won't want to change the gearing on your Torq!

 

There's a very old thread, pertaining to kit carried on the bike, wherein flecc listed his bike travel kit essentials, if its still in the forum archive, though it may be on his site if not?

 

Stuart.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by coops

Yes, this page on my Torq 1 site.

.

Good job that "puncture resistant " tyres are fitted.

Just bought a spare inner tube ---- just in case!!!!

 

Moral of the story --be prepared- always take a tool kit , perhaps not a spare battery-- too heavy!!!!!!!

Never was a boy scout though:p

 

An old fashioned puncture repair kit is a good thing to carry then most punctures can be repaired without removing the wheel. Last winter before fitting Shwalbe Marathon Plus tyres to my Torq I suffered a number of punctures in the puncture resistant Kendas, but as far as I remember I fixed all on the spot by simply slipping the tube out and patching while still on the bike. Locating the puncture without water can be tricky but usually not impossible.

 

I carry a spare tube and tools just in case though, the tools being a multi-tool with allen keys and screwdrivers, a small adjustable spanner plus a few latex gloves to keep my hands clean, spare fuses and a removable chain link.

 

I carry a spare battery on longer rides as well if I think range may become an issue.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by Ian

I had a sakura s300, which uses the same motor etc as the powabykes, and i often rode without power on flatter sections,it used to fly down hills with all that weight and virtually no drag from the motor,the fastest i have ever been on a bike.

Thanks Ian and Stuart-- I will make sure that I have tyre levers in my toolkit.

I am sure it will not be long before the inevitable happens.!!

 

Old habits die hard- cos if I have a puncture when out on my off road bike , then its off with the wheel , quick visual of the tube , then repair or slap in a new one.Not quite as quick as the pit stop guys in Formula one though!

 

May consider the Schwalbe's when my Torq has had a bit more use.

 

You're right Flecc , you do need 2 x 10mm spanners for the rear brake assembly and have already got these is the tool kit.

 

Anyway back to the thread-- sorry it should really be about power loss.

 

Ian-- how do you manage a spare battery??-- even if I eat 3 shredded wheat I could not really consider carting a spare battery around with me.

Ian-- how do you manage a spare battery??-- even if I eat 3 shredded wheat I could not really consider carting a spare battery around with me.

 

Carrying the spare battery ensures you don't need to eat 3 shreddies.

 

Seriously though, a lightweight bike + extra battery is still lighter than most electrics of less refined design and really isn't a problem.

i would like to carry a spare battery but at a cost of £250 and if it pops its clogs after 6 months then £250 down the pan, having two would also mean that neither would get used an awful lot so i could have 2 relatively fresh batteries and a £500 replacemnt bill, however i know thats looking at the worst scenario and they both might last 3-5 years....and as i am a slight gambler with the fine weather coming and finding i am able to do a little exploring new routes which i would not have done on a normal bike as means useing my energy..:o ..i may get a spare one...although im not so sure they are available at the moment...catch 22 eh..

I think Ian uses 2 NiMH batteries, Keith, which should cost rather less (if & when available...) and not be as much of a weight penalty as you might think - only 1.5kg or so each over Lithium I think - and should last for years, especially if used with the discharging charger for Ezee NiMH flecc posted a while back . I think thats the most cost effective way to get extra range, short of stopping off somewhere to 'top up' if you can!

 

May consider the Schwalbe's when my Torq has had a bit more use.

Yes, thats exactly what I did and my Kendas worked very well & flat-free for 3-400 hundred miles, they look hardly used to me, not worn at all, but I then swapped for m+ for extra peace of mind . Ian, on the other hand, found his to be rather worn after over 1000 miles and with seemingly much reduced puncture protection when he changed them.

 

Stuart.

Edited January 22, 200818 yr by coops

As Stuart says my batteries are NiMh which each weigh 5.5kg, a mere 1kg heavier than the Ezee Lithium. I have three, 2 Ezee originals and and a third which is an expired lithium re-celled with previously used NiMh cells. A recent discharge test showed them all to be in excellent condition despite the oldest having cells of over 2 years old.

 

As Stuart also says my my Kenda original tyres were showing signs of wear at 1000 miles, not so much tread wear as numerous cuts and abrasions. Punctures were frequent, that may be more to do with the local terrain and thorny hedgerows though.

 

Another benefit of Schwalbe tyres is the improvement in rolling resistance and handling of of the bike, the Europeans are streets ahead when it comes to tyre manufacture.