IS YOUR BATTERY RELIABLE ?

[mountainsport]

Hello All,

Can anyone on here say if that their battery, whatever make or model has served them well or even way over their expectation. My Life Cycle 37v 17ah is still going strong, Basically, after two and a half years I've only lost about two miles of range from out the pack which I find very good. If I can get another two years or even a year I would be more than chuffed. Is it true that some batteries can serve up to four years, does anyone have any good stories to tell about their battery pack.
Recently, the topic has been concentrating on the fairness of battery pack prices. I believe if we choose to spend a high price on a battery you should be more than happy and confident that it will serve you well.
Please share your views.

MS.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

How much you use a battery (charge cycles) has a big effect on its life.

 

[EddiePJ]

I haven't had the BH long enough to be able to say, but to date I'm satisfied with the performance from the Samsung (I think) 36V/9AH I also keep it indoors when not use. Part of this reason is security/theft related and part is that from experience with my cordless power tools at work, the batteries seem to perform better when not stored in a cold environment.

Okay it's two years old, but the BH dealer book that I have states the replacement battery cost as being 319.00 Euro. My understanding is that the UK retail cost is approx. double that in UK pounds!!

I do feel that there should be some kind of 'real world' standardisation placed on the battery duration mileages that manufacturers seem to un realistically claim. After price I bet that is probably the first thing that a first time potential purchaser looks at. I know that I did.
Taking the BH as an example. The claim is 55miles, and I reckon that I could easily kill the battery in less than 15 miles with my 12.5stone weight and with the bike ridden in assist mode only. The most that I have achieved with a mix of road and heavy mud is 35miles and that is with me doing most of the pedalling and the bike set on and off in ECO mode only.
I tend to ignore all these claims now, and look more at the overall component spec first, but I'm sure that the 55mile claim wouldn't be unrealistic on something like a NEO Race, again provided that it is ridden in a mix of ECO and no assist mode .
I'm a bit surprised by how low some of the AH ratings are on some bike batteries though.

 

[mountainsport]

How much you use a battery (charge cycles) has a big effect on its life.

What you said is so true, but believe me my battery has gone through its vigorous paces and long distances.

 

[mountainsport]

I haven't had the BH long enough to be able to say, but to date I'm satisfied with the performance from the Samsung (I think) 36V/9AH I also keep it indoors when not use. Part of this reason is security/theft related and part is that from experience with my cordless power tools at work, the batteries seem to perform better when not stored in a cold environment.

Okay it's two years old, but the BH dealer book that I have states the replacement battery cost as being 319.00 Euro. My understanding is that the UK retail cost is approx. double that in UK pounds!!

I do feel that there should be some kind of 'real world' standardisation placed on the battery duration mileages that manufacturers seem to un realistically claim. After price I bet that is probably the first thing that a first time potential purchaser looks at. I know that I did.
Taking the BH as an example. The claim is 55miles, and I reckon that I could easily kill the battery in less than 15 miles with my 12.5stone weight and with the bike ridden in assist mode only. The most that I have achieved with a mix of road and heavy mud is 35miles and that is with me doing most of the pedalling and the bike set on and off in ECO mode only.
I tend to ignore all these claims now, and look more at the overall component spec first, but I'm sure that the 55mile claim wouldn't be unrealistic on something like a NEO Race, again provided that it is ridden in a mix of ECO and no assist mode .
I'm a bit surprised by how low some of the AH ratings are on some bike batteries though.

 

[mountainsport]

Regards to worlds standardisation, manufacturers will always hide behind these precious words- weight of rider, terrain, tyre pressures, weather conditions, etc , which is true but just something to hide behind.
Again, you are so correct about this so called AH ratings.

 

[Cyclezee]

Regards to worlds standardisation, manufacturers will always hide behind these precious words- weight of rider, terrain, tyre pressures, weather conditions, etc , which is true but just something to hide behind.
Again, you are so correct about this so called AH ratings.

Tyre pressures, hadn't thought about that one

 

[EddiePJ]

Regards to worlds standardisation, manufacturers will always hide behind these precious words- weight of rider, terrain, tyre pressures, weather conditions, etc , which is true but just something to hide behind.

Perhaps they should let me carry out the tests.

 

[Cyclezee]

I haven't had the BH long enough to be able to say, but to date I'm satisfied with the performance from the Samsung (I think) 36V/9AH I also keep it indoors when not use. Part of this reason is security/theft related and part is that from experience with my cordless power tools at work, the batteries seem to perform better when not stored in a cold environment.

Okay it's two years old, but the BH dealer book that I have states the replacement battery cost as being 319.00 Euro. My understanding is that the UK retail cost is approx. double that in UK pounds!!

I do feel that there should be some kind of 'real world' standardisation placed on the battery duration mileages that manufacturers seem to un realistically claim. After price I bet that is probably the first thing that a first time potential purchaser looks at. I know that I did.
Taking the BH as an example. The claim is 55miles, and I reckon that I could easily kill the battery in less than 15 miles with my 12.5stone weight and with the bike ridden in assist mode only. The most that I have achieved with a mix of road and heavy mud is 35miles and that is with me doing most of the pedalling and the bike set on and off in ECO mode only.
I tend to ignore all these claims now, and look more at the overall component spec first, but I'm sure that the 55mile claim wouldn't be unrealistic on something like a NEO Race, again provided that it is ridden in a mix of ECO and no assist mode .
I'm a bit surprised by how low some of the AH ratings are on some bike batteries though.

Wow, that is some markup for the BH battery, our lowest capacity 11 Ah eZee battery with Sony cells retails for £300 / €361.

 

[mountainsport]

Tyre pressures, hadn't thought about that one

If you don't live you wont learn, have you heard that one before? Lol.

 

[mountainsport]

Perhaps they should let me carry out the tests.

Yes EddiePJ, and put things right once and for all.

 

[trex]

Most quality batteries are made with Samsung ICR18650-26F.
We pay for the number of cells * price per cell ($3.5 each for the ICR18650-26F) + $60 for the rest of the electronics and charger.
Don't be fooled by salesman spiel that somehow Chinese made batteries with Samsung cells work less well than Bosch (BMZ) made batteries.
There may be better quality control and software at the BMZ factory but the probability of cell failure and the overall characteristics are directly proportional to the number of cells in the pack.
Vendors should state the cell model (eg Samsung ICR18650-26F) and cofiguration (eg 10S5P), maximum continuous discharge rating eg 15A, 30A for 60 second burst, maimum charge current (2A or 4A) so we know =what we are paying for.

 

[mountainsport]

Most quality batteries are made with Samsung ICR18650-26F.
We pay for the number of cells * price per cell ($3.5 each for the ICR18650-26F) + $60 for the rest of the electronics and charger.
Don't be fooled by salesman spiel that somehow Chinese made batteries with Samsung cells work less well than Bosch (BMZ) made batteries.
There may be better quality control and software at the BMZ factory but the probability of cell failure and the overall characteristics are directly proportional to the number of cells in the pack.
Vendors should state the cell model (eg Samsung ICR18650-26F) and cofiguration (eg 10S5P), maximum continuous discharge rating eg 15A, 30A for 60 second burst, maimum charge current (2A or 4A) so we know =what we are paying for.

Thanks for that Trex great knowledge shall frame these words.

 

[cwah]

Most quality batteries are made with Samsung ICR18650-26F.
We pay for the number of cells * price per cell ($3.5 each for the ICR18650-26F) + $60 for the rest of the electronics and charger.
Don't be fooled by salesman spiel that somehow Chinese made batteries with Samsung cells work less well than Bosch (BMZ) made batteries.
There may be better quality control and software at the BMZ factory but the probability of cell failure and the overall characteristics are directly proportional to the number of cells in the pack.
Vendors should state the cell model (eg Samsung ICR18650-26F) and cofiguration (eg 10S5P), maximum continuous discharge rating eg 15A, 30A for 60 second burst, maimum charge current (2A or 4A) so we know =what we are paying for.

is it 3.5USD/cell delivered or before shipping? usually shipping increase cell cost by 25-50%

 

[John F]

I have no idea whether my battery is "quality" or not, nor do I understand what all the facts and figures mentioned above mean, but I'm keen to learn more! My battery markings are:

36v 15ah Lithium Polymer Power Battery
PICC The Top Energy System

130524 Zc61F17306 152 00871

Anyone enlighten me?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have no idea whether my battery is "quality" or not, nor do I understand what all the facts and figures mentioned above mean, but I'm keen to learn more! My battery markings are:

36v 15ah Lithium Polymer Power Battery
PICC The Top Energy System

130524 Zc61F17306 152 00871

Anyone enlighten me?

Oh dear, Bad luck!

Only joking. You can't tell anything from the outside. You have to know exactly which cells are inside, and what BMS you have. Then, you have to look at how neat everything is, bearing in mind that you often get a right mess hidden under a load of neat heat-shrink. Some battery sellers will tell you the brand and type of cell in the battery. Even if they tell you the truth, there's so many counterfeit branded cells, that it would surprise me if a Chinese battery had genuine ones.

So, unless you buy the cells yourself from an authorised stockist, it's a total lottery what you've got.

 

[mountainsport]

I have no idea whether my battery is "quality" or not, nor do I understand what all the facts and figures mentioned above mean, but I'm keen to learn more! My battery markings are:

36v 15ah Lithium Polymer Power Battery
PICC The Top Energy System

130524 Zc61F17306 152 00871

Anyone enlighten me?

How long have you had the battery? Have you noticed anything that your not confident with?

 

[trex]

Oh dear, Bad luck!

Only joking. You can't tell anything from the outside. You have to know exactly which cells are inside, and what BMS you have. Then, you have to look at how neat everything is, bearing in mind that you often get a right mess hidden under a load of neat heat-shrink. Some battery sellers will tell you the brand and type of cell in the battery. Even if they tell you the truth, there's so many counterfeit branded cells, that it would surprise me if a Chinese battery had genuine ones.

So, unless you buy the cells yourself from an authorised stockist, it's a total lottery what you've got.

or ask the suppliers for the make and model of the cells.
I am for freedom of information.
Good suppliers have nothing to hide.

PS: PICC is the insurance company that provides product liability insurance for your batteries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_An_Insurance

Many Chinese battery companies are way larger in size than BMZ. I am talking about a dozen companies with turnover over $100M in DongGuan that make batteries and solar panel here, not small Shenzhen workshops. They are responsible for supplying a million + Chinese eVs for export each year.

 

[El Champiero]

The Bosch e bike batteries are made in Poland. As to exactly what "made" means in this context is debatable. My guess is that all or most of internal bits are shipped from China and the spot welding and soldering together is done in Poland. The chargers are all made in China so it would make economic sense for Bosch to get a load of components (inc the BMS PCBs) shipped over to Poland. Going on what suppliers in China charge for making battery packs, it looks like Bosch are making about 40-50% mark-up on each battery.

 

[El Champiero]

@d8veh - Very true - Charge cycles absolutely have a big effect on overall battery life.