Is this true.

[blueboy]

This is me being blunt, so I apologise.

What you want is a motorbike, what you don't want is to pay tax / insurance etc, so you want the benefits of a motorbike without the costs.

This is the loophole the motorbike industry is trying to stop, hense the new rules... if it can move without being pedaled, its a motorbike.

Being blunt !!! I have no problem with that. But no I do not want a motorbike, I sold my last motorbike about 3 years ago after a lifetime of riding them (nearly 50 years) I very much like the idea of getting into the countryside & being able to get along cycle tracks & all the places a cycle can go.

Motorbikes can only go on the road & I have had enough of that.

I have an ordinary cycle in my shed but with advancing years & knee problems I found it was getting too hard for me to ride any distance, I discovered electric bikes & it was the answer for me, I can start going out again without all the hard work of a normal cycle.

I had a pre 2016 bike & I found it very easy to control using the throttle where the area is busy i.e. in parks where I don't want to be going along at 10 12 or 15mph using the peddles. I found that I could quite safely ride along at 6 or 7 mph without any problems to others. The new bike I have starts to zoom away as soon as I start peddling, even on the slowest setting its 10mph which when its busy is too fast.

I am not registered disabled & hopefully never will have to be but the e bike does give me some freedom back that I lost, I have a 4x4 & a van for my self employed work that I do so I pay enough road tax etc. While I am out on the bike I am not using my vehicles so a bit greener as well.

Whats next, make the children or their parents who ride their electric cars & motorbikes (toys) in the park go thru some sort of test & tax & insure their motorised vehicles.

 

[brightonebikes]

Being blunt !!! I have no problem with that. But no I do not want a motorbike, I sold my last motorbike about 3 years ago after a lifetime of riding them (nearly 50 years) I very much like the idea of getting into the countryside & being able to get along cycle tracks & all the places a cycle can go.

Motorbikes can only go on the road & I have had enough of that.

I have an ordinary cycle in my shed but with advancing years & knee problems I found it was getting too hard for me to ride any distance, I discovered electric bikes & it was the answer for me, I can start going out again without all the hard work of a normal cycle.

I had a pre 2016 bike & I found it very easy to control using the throttle where the area is busy i.e. in parks where I don't want to be going along at 10 12 or 15mph using the peddles. I found that I could quite safely ride along at 6 or 7 mph without any problems to others. The new bike I have starts to zoom away as soon as I start peddling, even on the slowest setting its 10mph which when its busy is too fast.

I am not registered disabled & hopefully never will have to be but the e bike does give me some freedom back that I lost, I have a 4x4 & a van for my self employed work that I do so I pay enough road tax etc. While I am out on the bike I am not using my vehicles so a bit greener as well.

Whats next, make the children or their parents who ride their electric cars & motorbikes (toys) in the park go thru some sort of test & tax & insure their motorised vehicles.

A good point well made.
There is also the noise of a motorbike in the countryside to consider. The peace and tranquillity of the setting will not be disturbed by an e-bike.
Going on from there are the green credentials of by far reduced pollution and sustainability extended by ebikes over motorbikes .
It sounds like a motorcycle would in effect be going backwards for you.
What you want is out there; but perhaps not in the form of an off-the-peg ebike, you may be better served by looking at a self-build hub/mid-drive kit or a bespoke custom built ebike from a reputable builder?
All the best in your quest to find what you want.

 

[blueboy]

A good point well made.
There is also the noise of a motorbike in the countryside to consider. The peace and tranquillity of the setting will not be disturbed by an e-bike.
Going on from there are the green credentials of by far reduced pollution and sustainability extended by ebikes over motorbikes .
It sounds like a motorcycle would in effect be going backwards for you.
What you want is out there; but perhaps not in the form of an off-the-peg ebike, you may be better served by looking at a self-build hub/mid-drive kit or a bespoke custom built ebike from a reputable builder?
All the best in your quest to find what you want.

Yes your right, I can see it now, me riding along the river or through the park on a Sunday on a motorbike. Everyone that see's me is smiling & hoping that I am having fun, even the local bobby is pleased to see me riding through the park & having a good time.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I don't disagree with your point, but what I'm saying is the law has to draw a line in the sand, and with pressure from the cycling industry and the motorbike industry, the line is being drawn here.

We might not agree with it, or we might argue that the planet, society and individuals would benefit from a different line.

But it is what it is.... you want something that the powers that be have decided you can't have, without breaking the law.

The problem is that you could I'm sure be trusted to use your throttle powered bicycle with respect. Others will see that they can use electric motorbike in places that cycles are allowed and won't be so respectful.

 

[KirstinS]

But it is what it is.... you want something that the powers that be have decided you can't have, without breaking the law

Sorry but, if I read flecc post correctly then he can have what he wants, a 250w road legal bike with a throttle. He just needs to covert not purchase off the peg.

This is allowed by lack of any law to contrary rather than an explicitly allowed

...i have a horrible suspicion I've missed something here...."

 

[blueboy]

You will never stop morons I'm afraid, there was a bunch of cyclists on ordinary bikes upsetting people along the river from me on Sunday. I get a bit fed up with being branded the same as them, because a few cause problems we all have to pay by being stopped from doing things we enjoy.
The people that have no respect & cause trouble will not give a toss about legislation & will do what they want & not care about consequences if there are any.

I don't agree with a cycle being called a motorbike as thats like saying a mobility scooter is a car (its got 4 wheels & steering & a throttle) , I have ridden many motorcycles over the years & they are an entirely different animal.

 

[blueboy]

Sorry but, if I read flecc post correctly then he can have what he wants, a 250w road legal bike with a throttle. He just needs to covert not purchase off the peg.

This is allowed by lack of any law to contrary rather than an explicitly allowed

...i have a horrible suspicion I've missed something here...."

I am not that knowledgeable about electric bikes as only been into them for a few weeks but all I am saying is that its ok to ride a pre 2016 electric bike & its also ok to ride an ordinary bike that you have converted to electric with a twist & go scenario, whats the difference to buying already made, why is there one law for one & another for someone else, its either legal or its not.
UK should be encouraging green cycling no chucking things in the way to put people off.

 

[blueboy]

Looks like the only way to be sure of legally having a throttle on an electric bike is to get my old mountain bike converted, anyone know who can do this to a good standard or is it something I can easily do myself. I am an electrician & also fit bathrooms & kitchens & general house repairs so I am pretty practical.
What is a good kit to buy including battery ?

 

[flecc]

Sorry but, if I read flecc post correctly then he can have what he wants, a 250w road legal bike with a throttle. He just needs to covert not purchase off the peg.

This is allowed by lack of any law to contrary rather than an explicitly allowed

...i have a horrible suspicion I've missed something here...."

No, nothing missed.

The absence of any law on how power was controlled on pedelecs and conversions meant any method including a throttle was legal under the old EAPC regulations up to 5th April 2015.

From the 1st January 2016 any new pedelec could not have an independent throttle without first having type approval, but since the type approval law for them would not appear before January 2018, it meant a total ban on independent throttles for new pedelecs for that two years.

However, type approval does not apply to conversions, for them Individual Vehicle Approval applies, but there is no IVA law for pedelecs and none is currently planned. That, plus the absence of any law saying a conversion cannot have a throttle, means a throttle can be fitted.
.

 

[blueboy]

How is it going to be enforced flecc, okay I am riding my bike on throttle only, policeman asks how is it you are riding throttle only as your bike looks almost new, well officer I really do take care of anything I have & I actually bought this in May 2017 at a boot sale, I asked the guy who was selling it how old it was as it looks new, he told me he purchased it in December 2015 never liked it after 1 ride so never rode it again & just kept it in the house under the stairs, I only ride it very occasionally clean it after every use & it lives in the house with me. Do you have a receipt for it to prove when you bought it, sorry no, I bought it from a car boot sale & they don't give receipts.

 

[flecc]

How is it going to be enforced flecc, okay I am riding my bike on throttle only, policeman asks how is it you are riding throttle only as your bike looks almost new, well officer I really do take care of anything I have & I actually bought this in May 2017 at a boot sale, I asked the guy who was selling it how old it was as it looks new, he told me he purchased it in December 2015 never liked it after 1 ride so never rode it again & just kept it in the house under the stairs, I only ride it very occasionally clean it after every use & it lives in the house with me. Do you have a receipt for it to prove when you bought it, sorry no, I bought it from a car boot sale & they don't give receipts.

There's never been any specific enforcement, the number of them in the UK to small to notice. The only time there's been a hint of possible trouble is when one is involved in an accident.

You shouldn't be too upset about the legal position, it's wonderful compared with the way it was. When our e-bike law was first introduced in 1983, power was limited to a strict 200 watts, none of today's allowance for peak powers etc, and the assist speed limit was 12 mph.

And earlier back in 1950 when add-on bicycle motors were tiny petrol ones, a rider had to pass a full motorcycle test to get rid of L plates. And the bikes had to be registered with number plates and VED (road tax), plus m/c insurance.

We've got it very easy now, you try to fit front and rear full size number plates, two L plates and a tax disc holder to a push bike and you'll see what I mean.
.

 

[blueboy]

There's never been any specific enforcement, tne number of them in the UK to small to notice. The only time there's been a hint of possible trouble is when one is involved in an accident.

You shouldn't be too upset about the legal position, it's wonderful compared with way it was. When our e-bike law was first introduced in 1983, power was limited to a strict 200 watts, none of today's allownce for peak powers etc, and the assist speed limit was 12 mph.

And earlier back in 1950 when add-on bicycle motors were tiny petrol ones, a rider had to pass a full motorcycle test to get rid of L plates. And the bikes had to be registered with number plates and VED (road tax), plus m/c insurance.

We've got it very easy now.
.

Still want a throttle tho.

 

[georgehenry]

I have found the throttle on my 2011 Oxygen useful in ways I had not thought of when I bought it.

If the chain jams or comes off it still provides forward movement to allow you to choose a safe place to stop and sort out the problem. If you cannot solve the problem it will help to get you home.

Also when at traffic lights or similar where you want to get away as fast as possible to be safe the throttle engages the motor immediately from the off and quicker than the cadence sensor.

A proper throttle is much better than a walk assist button when you want the bike to help when you are pushing it perhaps with full panniers and I have even negotiated over bridge stairs at railway stations where no lift has been provided although thankfully more lifts are being put in at the stations around me.

On the naughty side of useful with a little practice you can put one foot on a pedal with your body on that side of the bike pushing along with the other foot apparently bionically as with careful use of the throttle you can coast like this for a long long way perhaps where actually riding a bike might be frowned upon but used in this way is seen as OK.

However use your common sense when doing this! and at a speed and in locations where it is not dangerous to you or other people.

Considering an electric bike is really not that powerful really and a throttle allows less fit people or indeed anyone who might struggle to ride a normal bike a way to get some exercise and provide a useful and cheap mode of transport I don't know why any change of legislation was needed?

Perhaps with the passing of time, in the future my Oxygen will be viewed like a classic car and start to appreciate! Maybe not!

I also have a crank drive sDuro Yamaha that I love, but I also love my old Oxygen and really cannot see what the fuss is about in respect of a de-restricted throttle. It is certainly no motorbike.

 

[blueboy]

I have found the throttle on my 2011 Oxygen useful in ways I had not thought of when I bought it.

If the chain jams or comes off it still provides forward movement to allow you to choose a safe place to stop and sort out the problem. If you cannot solve the problem it will help to get you home.

Also when at traffic lights or similar where you want to get away as fast as possible to be safe the throttle engages the motor immediately from the off and quicker than the cadence sensor.

A proper throttle is much better than a walk assist button when you want the bike to help when you are pushing it perhaps with full panniers and I have even negotiated over bridge stairs at railway stations where no lift has been provided although thankfully more lifts are being put in at the stations around me.

On the naughty side of useful with a little practice you can put one foot on a pedal with your body on that side of the bike pushing along with the other foot apparently bionically as with careful use of the throttle you can coast like this for a long long way perhaps where actually riding a bike might be frowned upon but used in this way is seen as OK.

However use your common sense when doing this! and at a speed and in locations where it is not dangerous to you or other people.

Considering an electric bike is really not that powerful really and a throttle allows less fit people or indeed anyone who might struggle to ride a normal bike a way to get some exercise and provide a useful and cheap mode of transport I don't know why any change of legislation was needed?

Perhaps with the passing of time, in the future my Oxygen will be viewed like a classic car and start to appreciate! Maybe not!

I also have a crank drive sDuro Yamaha that I love, but I also love my old Oxygen and really cannot see what the fuss is about in respect of a de-restricted throttle. It is certainly no motorbike.

Could not agree more mate. I just saw an Oxygen bike for sale, looked really nice, has a throttle as well. Would have bought it but after buying my new cheaper model bike it will have to wait a little while.

 

[Mal69]

Many housing estates have 20mph limits for their roads for car use, I think 20mph would have been a better legal limit for e-bikes but the law says 15.5mph so that's what the bikes are generally quoted for.

Shame there is no throttle on the Oxygen bike I bought, sounds useful.

 

[soundwave]

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I don't agree with a cycle being called a motorbike as thats like saying a mobility scooter is a car (its got 4 wheels & steering & a throttle) , I have ridden many motorcycles over the years & they are an entirely different animal.

This is I'm afraid my point, its not up to you or me to decide.

There is a vehicle class for mobility scooters.

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/rules-for-class-3-invalid-carriages

If its outside these then, its a car.

Same with eBikes / Pedelecs. There is a vehicle class for them

and if your vehicle falls outside that class, because its not a eBike its motorbike.

 

[Danidl]

Many housing estates have 20mph limits for their roads for car use, I think 20mph would have been a better legal limit for e-bikes but the law says 15.5mph so that's what the bikes are generally quoted for.

Shame there is no throttle on the Oxygen bike I bought, sounds useful.[/QUOTE
]
.. you might think so, and I would not necessarily disagree, but recall that going up from 15 to 20 more than doubles the power consumption. Battery will only give half the travel distance.
You might be better using the term EPAC for those limited to 15 mph and ebike for those not limited. The designers of the legislation, took a number of factors into account including the range speed and power demands of commuters, not the racing fraternity. The term being a bike with electrical assistance, not a motorbike.

 

[Tugwell Gibson]

I bought my oxygen ebike mtb this year in January. The dealer offered me a throttle and said it was legal if I fitted it myself. I did. I never derestricted it, however it is not walk assist only. It goes all the way to legal cutoff.

Where do I stand legally? By the way I'm no speed king. And have been working towards using Eco most of the time and rarely use the throttle. I find for going slowly you just knock the pas level right down.

 

[flecc]

I bought my oxygen ebike mtb this year in January. The dealer offered me a throttle and said it was legal if I fitted it myself.

Where do I stand legally? By the way I'm no speed king. And have been working towards using Eco most of the time and rarely use the throttle. I find for going slowly you just knock the pas level right down.

The legal position is a bit vague. An e-bike created by conversion can legally have a throttle, but a new e-bike bought since January 1st 2016 cannot have one.

The question is, does your adding a throttle make the bike a conversion. The DfT have said that throttles are not banned on an ordinary bike converted to electric assist, but that isn't written into law anywhere so has no legal standing in respect of what a conversion consists of.

There is only a law that says new pedelecs with a throttle must be type approved, and that can only be done by manufacturers. You've added a throttle, but you cannot put the bike through type approval.

Since it doesn't fall into that classification of being manufactured with a throttle, it can only be a conversion, and no law exists that says a conversion cannot have a throttle.

Ultimately it's a matter for the courts to interpret the law if the matter ever arose. But of course the matter of the throttle is unlikely ever to arise if the bike is legal in all other ways, 250 watts, 15.5 mph maximum assist speed etc.
.