Is steel still good

[Saracen]

I have never been "into" cars or bikes, cameras yes I am a so called professional Photo Journalist, shooting for magazines and press but anything else, no.

However years back I bought a steel frame and had the shop build me a bike, you have seen it many times.

I was purely out of interests looking at the sticker on it I know it is Reynolds 853 steel, and for the first time ever, this is 100% true, last night I used my phone for the first time EVER to google and read something, 64, had phones since the first luggables, only ever for talk and text, and I read about Reynolds steel frames.

Steel is supposedly (isn't everything) one of THE (not shouting, emphasising!) best materials for bikes.

Is this still true or a hornets nest.

Thanks.

 

[Sturmey]

I wonder would a carbon frame survive the 100 foot drop in video below.

 

[sjpt]

Yes, good quality steel still has many benefits. Slightly more flex gives a smoother ride than some firmer materials, much easier to weld if you have any issues, easier (with care) to widen the spread of the dropouts, doesn't suffer significant fatigue.

 

[Ocsid]

Yes, it is a super material for general use bike frames, and particularly front forks; better IMO than many basic suspension forks.
My Brompton and my older Giant road bike, some 30 plus years old have it.
Just not fashionable, and heavy if used in the bulky for bulky sake styling presently so in vouge.

 

[matthewslack]

All (bike) design is optimised compromise. Steel works fine, and for a long time had no serious competition. Aluminium needed robotic welding to take off, carbon still carries a hefty price tag. Nothing has come along that is so far ahead as to make steel obsolete.

Routine ebiking can carry a hefty load of compromise, if it works for the user it is good enough.

 

[Az.]

 

[guerney]

A rear hub motor with 60A controller would destroy aluminium and carbon frames, and titanium would be too flexy for that much power? With no amp limit for 250W rated motors mentioned in pedelec laws, weight only really matters when heaving heavy bikes up stairs, into cars and trains - I've thought of two gizmos which would make heaves into trains and up stairs easy, and will get around to making proofs of concepts at some point. I'd have preferred to have found a steel framed MTB in the nature reserve...but no it's aluminium.

 

[saneagle]

I have never been "into" cars or bikes, cameras yes I am a so called professional Photo Journalist, shooting for magazines and press but anything else, no.

However years back I bought a steel frame and had the shop build me a bike, you have seen it many times.

I was purely out of interests looking at the sticker on it I know it is Reynolds 853 steel, and for the first time ever, this is 100% true, last night I used my phone for the first time EVER to google and read something, 64, had phones since the first luggables, only ever for talk and text, and I read about Reynolds steel frames.

Steel is supposedly (isn't everything) one of THE (not shouting, emphasising!) best materials for bikes.

Is this still true or a hornets nest.

Thanks.View attachment 55714

Steel is old-fashioned now. You get a few traditional bike builders using it for tradition. Titanium is stronger, lighter and doesn't corrode. Carbon fibre is the best material and is what most professional riders use because it's strong, light and absorbant, and it lasts forever.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I dont notice any undue flex on my 250W rear hub titanium eBike.

20 year old frame but looks like new.

Nice ride too.

 

[saneagle]

A rear hub motor with 60A controller would destroy aluminium and carbon frames, and titanium would be too flexy for that much power? With no amp limit for 250W rated motors mentioned in pedelec laws, weight only really matters when heaving heavy bikes up stairs, into cars and trains - I've thought of two gizmos which would make heaves into trains and up stairs easy, and will get around to making proofs of concepts at some point. I'd have preferred to have found a steel framed MTB in the nature reserve...but no it's aluminium.

They use carbon frames in formula 1 cars and formula E. Both give a lot more torque than a 60A ebike controller, and don't seem to break. It's just a question of designing for purpose. A carbon fibre roadbike frame is designed for around 1000w at the crank, and would break if you put a hub-motor in it, but there's no reason that you couldn't design and make one for a powerful hub-motor. The Isle of Man electric bikes probably have carbon fibre frames, and they do 200 mph.

 

[guerney]

I dont notice any undue flex on my 250W rear hub titanium eBike.

20 year old frame but looks like new.

Nice ride too.

60A

Might you at a legal 48V X 60A = 2,880W?

 

[Saracen]

Steel is old-fashioned now. You get a few traditional bike builders using it for tradition. Titanium is stronger, lighter and doesn't corrode. Carbon fibre is the best material and is what most professional riders use because it's strong, light and absorbant, and it lasts forever.

Really ?

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-steel-road-bikes

 

[lenny]

 

[saneagle]

Really ?

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-steel-road-bikes

I could make a video about the top ten dog-turds. Does that make make the white ones with flies on them desirable? I'd give it 5 stars just for rarity. When was the last time you saw a white one? Also, the white ones are much less stinky. You hardly notice when you tred on them as long as you don't slip over and sit on it. Of course you could always polish them to look a bit more attractive.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

I dont notice any undue flex on my 250W rear hub titanium eBike.

20 year old frame but looks like new.

Nice ride too.

I've gone off titanium. Good news is it hasn't gone off and rusted I suppose. Nice shiny bottle opener for grave robbers.

 

[saneagle]

I've gone off titanium. Good news is it hasn't gone off and rusted I suppose. Nice shiny bottle opener for grave robbers.

View attachment 55729

The surgeon must have been an engineer. Genius using a bottle opener for that. Maybe you should carry another one in your toolkit in case you fall off again.

Also, that one will be handy at your cremation. It should remain the jar of ashes they give to your family, so they can use it to open the bottles. At least they'll know if it's you they burnt because if it's not there, they burnt an imposter.

 

[AndyBike]

At least they'll know if it's you they burnt because if it's not there, they burnt an imposter.

As im a furniture maker, Im tempted to build my own coffin. In the timber I'd drill 21 holes, that I would fill with Hilti nailgun cartridges, so that when its in the crematorium, I get to go off with a 21 gun salute.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

All (bike) design is optimised compromise. Steel works fine, and for a long time had no serious competition. Aluminium needed robotic welding to take off, carbon still carries a hefty price tag. Nothing has come along that is so far ahead as to make steel obsolete.

Routine ebiking can carry a hefty load of compromise, if it works for the user it is good enough.

It is steel frames that are robot welded. I'm guessing perhaps there is some robot welding of aluminium nowadays but the vast majority of aluminium frames are hand welded. Fuji-ta the world's biggest manufacturer of bikes do amazing numbers of robot welded frames of exceptional high quality and back in 2013/2014 I think they were less than $5 factory door price. Manufacturing steel frames has evolved so much and now its pretty much state of the art.

I also remember at the time reading something along the lines of welder progression and it was starting with steel children's frames then welding children's aluminium frames and finally welding adult aluminium frames. It didn't mention titanium despite fuji-ta doing those frames. Anyway I guess it was skills progression and therefore earnings.

If your watching a video of welding robots you can normally tell if its steel or aluminium as steel gives bright large sparks where as aluminium is very dull in comparison often barely visible. So just by seeing the welds tells you which material.

I remember seeing a video in the past which was Dahon that was very manipulative showing aluminium framed folding bikes but then clearly showed a steel frame being welded by a robot.

There is a difference in material cost but the main difference in the price of frames by material is manufacturing complexity and time. One operator loading 3 welding robot jigs sequentially can mean 100s of steel frames made per day.

Back in 2013/2014 over 95% of bikes and frames exported from China were steel. Of course that would include children's bikes and supply poorer countries in Africa, Asia, South America etc However even in the UK we can see entry level bikes are still high tensile steel.

 

[chris667]

One thing to bear in mind is "performance" steels like 853 are built into lightweight bikes not designed for the stresses of a motor. They're an exercise in removing as much material as possible yet still having a bike that's strong enough for the job they are designed for. Why? As they get lighter the frames themselves are more prone to damage as the walls of the tube are much thinner. If you look at eBay listings for high quality steel bikes you often find that they have dents in the tubes and cracks. Proportionally, far more than you do when you look at frames made in 531 which was built in thicker guages.

It should also be noted that many performance bikes are not meant to last a long time. Gerald O'Donovan, head builder of Raleigh's Special Products Division, used to build frames that were so close to the edge of the materials they were made with they were meant to last for one race. He made a big show of cutting them up with a bandsaw after their first (and last!) ride.

Aluminium frames and high tensile steel frames are similar in that they use far more material and bigger tube diameters to stop the frames from cracking under load. People often say alu bikes are "harsh" - that's partly because they're not very flexible (but mostly because they're more likely to be set up as "racers" with skinny tyres, and aggressive riding position with the handlebars down and saddle up - you could make a very comfortable bike in any material you wanted).

Titanium is theoretically a wonder material, but it's hard to make a frame with - it needs special welding which is very expensive and can fail. You can do what companies like Raleigh did in the nineties and glue the ti tubes frames into lugs, but that's problematic too.

For an eBike, I think most very lightweight bikes are not a good choice. The weight saving is not so important when you have a motor. A high tensile steel fork is theoretically less strong than an 853 one but it will bend before it breaks and there is more material so in practice the high tensile steel fork will almost always be stronger.

My eBike has an aluminium frame and high tensile steel forks. I'm happy with that, and it was cheap - if it breaks, I shall transfer it into another frame I have which is high tensile steel.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Of the frame types, which is likley to be the easiest and cheapest to get repaired ?

Does the average local bike shop have the equipment to repair modern frames ?

In times gone past steel bike frames using Reynolds 531 tubing etc (sigh ... memories) were brazed with lugs so as long as you had the frame tubes I guess no fancy equipment was needed to repair a damadged frame.

A lot of the more modern frame materials, including steel now seem to be welded or repaired with fibre and resin as in Carbon frames.

I assume my chances of a repair, if it were needed, to my titanium bike frame are slim ?