Is Speed Dangerous?

[Biged]

I have noticed when riding my Agattu at any speed over 20mph things can get very hairy, why is that you may ask.

Riding at anything over 20mph and especially approaching 30mph brings you into direct conflict with cars and particularly Lorries.
When you are cycling along at a comfortable 15mph its no problem, they give you space (mostly) and pass you in a jiffy, any faster they tail gate you much closer than they would any other vehicle, have no problems driving along side you and just have to get by even if they are slamming their brakes on or turning left just as they have done so.
Lorries, particularly articulated Lorries will come up behind drop down a few gears and then crawl by you just a couple of feet away.

Very disconcerting!

Some on this forum think all pedelecs should be able to cruise between 20-30mph (don’t they Frank) I just think its asking for trouble.

What do you think?

 

[Mussels]

I ride much of my journey between 20 and 30mph, cars are usually quite happy to wait for a safe overtake as I'm not slowing them down much. I don't think road speed is much of an argument against increased pedelec speeds, that's more of a problem on shared paths and other places you wouldn't take a motor vehicle.

 

[flecc]

The alternative argument, often put forward by A to B magazine, is that the faster you ride, the less times you get overtaken in any particular stretch, minimising the number of interaction times.

There's validity in both views, so I think it's best to do what one is most comfortable with and accept that others can also be right in the choice they make.

Alternatively, get a Yamaha R1 or Suzuki Hayabusa so that no-one ever overtakes you!

 

[indalo]

I ride much of my journey between 20 and 30mph

Will you be having a crack at the TDF anytime soon then?

Regards,
Indalo

 

[Mussels]

Will you be having a crack at the TDF anytime soon then?

Regards,
Indalo

It's hilly so I'm riding downhill a lot.

 

[Ultra Motor]

I think riding at 20mph is safe, but very much dependent on the rider, their awareness to things going on around them and maturity with the decisions they make. Any faster than 20 I think it should jump to 30 and form another class of pedelec

 

[HarryB]

I have found riding faster on an electric bike much safer - especially uphill. Not once have I had a car attempt a left turn while running along side me since electrification. This was a usual occurrence when riding pre-electric. I think there is something in the A to B view, as mussels says, drivers are happier if they don't have to slow down too much and fewer of them are overtaking you anyway. This is my view after a lifetime of cycling and being electrified for 10 years now.

 

[Alex728]

On both push bikes and e-bikes I've found going faster is generally safer. My push bikes have been a Dawes Horizon tourer (with drop handlebars), and a Raleigh hybrid with 700c wheels.

The only issue I've found is that with my e-bikes (particularly the Wisper) is that certain drivers, ironically often younger drivers simply do not expect it to be going that fast and seem to be in denial that I am going at that speed. People often associate a "fast" bicycle with drop handlebars and/or the rider in lycra and think anything else not fitting into that category will be "slow".

 

[tillson]

Speed is dangerous if you collide with something. The greater the velocity you crash into something, the more energy absorbed by your body, the more it hurts.

Speed can reduce the probability of something colliding with you.

The question is, what is the net effect of the two? Is the increased risk of injury in the event of a higher speed collision, mitigated sufficiently by a reduction in probability of being hit by something else?

I don't know the answer.

 

[carpetbagger]

The biggest problem for me is people pulling out in front or turning right across the front of me,it seems that because i am a cyclist i should crawl along and wait for them. The air zound has had a lot of use recently,espcially the two ladies who turned right across me and didn't even bother to look. If i had been a HGV they would be in the cemetary now. Most people are ok but some just can't judge my speed or more likely can't be bothered waiting. Personally i don't mind the HGV's crawling behind, at least it shows they are aware of you and are willing to give you space before they pass you,better that then them cruising past and giving you just a few inches of road space.

 

[peasjam]

I don't think it's clear cut either way to be honest.

Being able to keep up with traffic around town is safer as it allows you to position your bike where you need, especially important on those right turns on roundabouts.

The flip side is that higher speeds on my powered bike (27mph ish) means people are more likely to pull out of side roads in front of me simply because they're not expecting the gap to close so quickly.

As long as a bike, electric or not, is ridden appropriately for the road conditions I don't particularly see one as more inherently dangerous than the other.

 

[NRG]

Yes, agree with peasjam especially the pulling out part, I don't think some motorists expect a bike to be travelling that fast (even at 20mph) I've been caught out a number of times when the driver just pulls out and I've had to slow so as not to hit the back of the vehicle...

 

[Caph]

In town I find that being able to maintain an average of 18mph makes my ride much safer with respect to integration with traffic. Traffic seems much happier waiting a while behind me for a safe overtaking place at 15mph than they do crawling behind me at 7mph up a hill. In fact anger and frustration tend to creep in at slower speeds - a dangerous combination. Also, in the inner city I feel much happier holding a middle (or third or even fourth!) lane with ability to accelerate on a par with the traffic and maintain nearly 20mph in keeping with the traffic.

 

[lemmy]

One thing you have to hope is that if you are riding an e-bike capable of higher powered speeds than are legal, anyone you collide with has insurance, because you don't, presumably. Or would household insurance cover it?

I am old enough to remember when driving without insurance was quite a serious business but it does seem less of a concern nowadays as peasjam illustrates.

What would be the position legally if a kid was knocked down by a 27mph powered speed e-bike at 27mph? Would the cyclist be liable for injuries incurred? It's quite confusing nowadays to know to whom and what machines the law applies. Any legal minds on this forum?

 

[z0mb13e]

I find the speeds at which I feel safe, or less prone, varies according to the road I am on and the time of day (and as a direct result of the time, the amount of traffic) and the size, gradient & condition of the road. 15mph is reasonable for most situations in traffic but there are a few places where 18-20mph would be much safer.

Particularly a few roundabouts I have to negotiate where cars like to cut off my desired exit by going right in the left hand lane. I would either have to travel fast enough that they don't/can't undertake and cut off my intended exit or slow down and hope that no one else is following them and so leaving me stuck out in the middle of a roundabout with traffic trying to get past on both sides.

There are also downhill stretches where I can exceed 30mph but the road is often busy and is narrow and cars & buses still want to over take.

For the most part I don't think speed is an issue if you are a capable enough individual, though of course there are unforeseen circumstances that could cause anyone to lose control and then the speed you carry becomes problematic. Add into that mix other road users and it all gets messy.

As for who would be liable if you were on an illegal ebike, you would. You would be riding an unregistered, untaxed, uninsured vehicle and liable for all the penalties that entails on top of the issue of causing any injury.

 

[tillson]

One thing you have to hope is that if you are riding an e-bike capable of higher powered speeds than are legal, anyone you collide with has insurance, because you don't, presumably. Or would household insurance cover it?

I am old enough to remember when driving without insurance was quite a serious business but it does seem less of a concern nowadays as peasjam illustrates.

What would be the position legally if a kid was knocked down by a 27mph powered speed e-bike at 27mph? Would the cyclist be liable for injuries incurred? It's quite confusing nowadays to know to whom and what machines the law applies. Any legal minds on this forum?

The first thing to be clear about in the above scenario is that you would not be able to rely on your house insurance. You would be able to if the bike was legal, but not if can exceed the legal speed limit under power. You would therefore be liable for any compensation payable to the injured party. If you are a home owner or have any other substantial asset, rest assured that they will come after you.

The second item is the legal issues concerning the use of the bike. If the injured party is seriously injured, your bike will be taken away for forensic examination. If it is in anyway illegal, this will be discovered. This will then lead to a prosecution a variety of motoring offences for which you will be fined / have points added to your driving licence / be banned from driving. If the injured party is killed, you could potentially be prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving.

For example, if you were on one of Banbury Frank's 30 mph jobs, a barrister will argue, and probably convince a jury, that an ordinary person should know that to drive such a vehicle on a road and to subject members of the public to it's presence on a road is dangerous. They will state that it is a bicycle, with bicycle lights and bicycle brakes, yet a person fitted a motor to that bicycle and gave it the performance of a motor vehicle. The person neglected to upgrade any of the safety equipment to motor vehicle standards or regulations, and did not even submit it for SVA testing. This would be enough to stand a good chance of securing a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving.

So, worst case scenario, you lose your house and go to prison. Unlikely, but as illegal bikes become more popular, it will happen. They may even lock up the supplier of the bike / kit if it could be shown that they were selling / advertising irresponsibly

 

[Straylight]

Just because you have a bike that can cruise at 20MPH, doesn't mean that you have to ride at 20MPH all the time.

If someone is taking a disconcerting amount of time to overtake you, then you have brakes, so use them, and let the car/lorry overtake faster.

The premise of the OP, suggests a lack of control and anticipation on behalf of the cyclist, which I simply don't see as being the rule, considering how vulnerable we are in comparison to other road users.

 

[mike killay]

The real answer to this is for the government to legislate to allow cyclist on pavements up to 15 mph.
Roundabouts are anothert problem and highway authorities should be required to build in cycleways around them. Not as hard as you might think, just that you will have to cross each carriageway in the manner of a pedestrian. In Cardiff, the Coryton roundabout is about half a mile around it, it's huge and terrifying for anyone, let alone cyclists.

 

[lemmy]

The real answer to this is for the government to legislate to allow cyclist on pavements up to 15 mph.

That would be fine if you were dealing with a fully responsible group of people but if someone is happy to flout the law regarding of legal e-bike speeds, what chance they would respect such a pavement speed limit?

I do a fair bit of walking. The roads are dangerous enough when you have to cross them. Imagine a pavement with illegal e-cyclists and the lycra louts up and down it - no thanks!

 

[flecc]

Government thinking on vehicle pavement speeds in Britain and mainland Europe rules out any possibility of 15 mph. The little 3 and 4 wheeled mobility vehicles are everywhere limited to 4 mph (6 kph) on pavements and 8 mph (13 kph) on roads.