Is it legal?
- Thread starter halfmedley
- Start date
Yes, because we have an odd state where both the UK and European laws apply in the UK, a unique position among member countries. The Department of Transport seems unwilling to clear things up so we can pick and choose from the two sets of regulation.
250 watts is permissable in Europe, and what the citizen of one member country enjoys from a European regulation, all are entitled to enjoy. In addition, our parliament passed the European regulation into UK law as ordered by Europe, but left the UK law in place. That's the owner's authority to act within either.
250 watts is permissable in Europe, and what the citizen of one member country enjoys from a European regulation, all are entitled to enjoy. In addition, our parliament passed the European regulation into UK law as ordered by Europe, but left the UK law in place. That's the owner's authority to act within either.
I was recently stopped by our local Bobby who was interested in the electric bike plus Westie in a Basket combination I was riding (as are most people,actually!) and had to explain the law (as I knew it) to him. He was very interested as he hadn't understood it before but he hadn't seen any other electric bikes anyway!!They haven't got a clue!
Pete
Your Westie should have starred in Cass Gilbert's article "Four Legs, Two Wheels" in the December 2003 Velovision magazine.
The article contained all manner of weird and wonderful ways of carrying dogs on bikes, including the Brighton cycle dealer who carries his two large black labradors in a Brox four wheeler. You can see the cover pic and contents preview on the link below:
Velovision Magazine
Your Westie should have starred in Cass Gilbert's article "Four Legs, Two Wheels" in the December 2003 Velovision magazine.
The article contained all manner of weird and wonderful ways of carrying dogs on bikes, including the Brighton cycle dealer who carries his two large black labradors in a Brox four wheeler. You can see the cover pic and contents preview on the link below:
Velovision Magazine
I carry her round in a Basil wicker basket that fits on the rear pannier. The only disadvantage is that she has to be lifted in. She runs along too when we reach the countryside bits and is a well exercised dog. The whole combination receives many oohs and ahhs from young ladies. If only I'd hit on this thirty years ago!
I will post a picture as soon as I can get a suitable pose.
I will post a picture as soon as I can get a suitable pose.
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Hey, my thread's been hijacked by a dog-owners forum! Going back to my original posting...has anybody tried the Cambridge ElectroMotion Hybrid with its 250W motor? Seems it could be a useful machine...
Hi Halfmedley.
Do you have a web link to that bike? I can't find it.
Going back to your original question, I think a 250W motor is only legal in UK if it matches EU specifications, mainly that the motor stops if you stop pedalling. You might want to check that.
I'd never assume that the police know all the regulations about electric bikes. But if I were ever in an accident, regardless of whose fault or who suffered, I would assume that an opposition lawyer would be looking for any possible loophole to fix the blame on me. So I try to stay legal.
Mary
Do you have a web link to that bike? I can't find it.
Going back to your original question, I think a 250W motor is only legal in UK if it matches EU specifications, mainly that the motor stops if you stop pedalling. You might want to check that.
I'd never assume that the police know all the regulations about electric bikes. But if I were ever in an accident, regardless of whose fault or who suffered, I would assume that an opposition lawyer would be looking for any possible loophole to fix the blame on me. So I try to stay legal.
Mary
Halfmedley
That bike on this link looks almost the same as the Powacycle Cambridge which is far cheaper, even the battery looks identical. Check here. Only the motor diameter looks different, which could indicate more power, or not! Their mention of 250 watt seems to indicate that though.
P.S. I don't own a dog!
MaryinOxford
Technically that's right, but I can't see anyone trying a prosecution, since the various advices from the DoT are unsupportive of one. Basically a can of worms until someone at the DoT gets round to clearing up the mess they created. With all the bikes that have a pedelec option like the eZee models, it can be argued that this mode was in use anyway, and there's no way of proving otherwise.
There'd be no guarantee of a prosecution succeeding since the conflict of Euro citizen rights and permissions with the primacy of domestic law could lead to almost any ruling.
That bike on this link looks almost the same as the Powacycle Cambridge which is far cheaper, even the battery looks identical. Check here. Only the motor diameter looks different, which could indicate more power, or not! Their mention of 250 watt seems to indicate that though.
P.S. I don't own a dog!
MaryinOxford
Technically that's right, but I can't see anyone trying a prosecution, since the various advices from the DoT are unsupportive of one. Basically a can of worms until someone at the DoT gets round to clearing up the mess they created. With all the bikes that have a pedelec option like the eZee models, it can be argued that this mode was in use anyway, and there's no way of proving otherwise.
There'd be no guarantee of a prosecution succeeding since the conflict of Euro citizen rights and permissions with the primacy of domestic law could lead to almost any ruling.
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Interesting how there is much uncertainty over the regulations, and I wonder who of us will have the misfortune to be on the receiving end of the test case that clears up such legislative incompetence!
On the electricbikesales website they suggest the law is currently thus:
· average continuous motor power output no more than 250 watts
· maximum speed under power 15 mph.
· must have functioning pedals.
· the use of a throttle is now allowed.
· weight must not be more than 40 kg unless a tandem or tricycle.
· riders age must be at least 14 years of age.
See what you mean about the Hybrid's similarity to the Powacycle Mr Flecc, apart from the price, but the motor does appear to be different as indeed does the battery rating. Presumably you need a bit more mAH to power a bigger motor? Also hopefully 250W would give you a "bit more" up those darn hills!
On the electricbikesales website they suggest the law is currently thus:
· average continuous motor power output no more than 250 watts
· maximum speed under power 15 mph.
· must have functioning pedals.
· the use of a throttle is now allowed.
· weight must not be more than 40 kg unless a tandem or tricycle.
· riders age must be at least 14 years of age.
See what you mean about the Hybrid's similarity to the Powacycle Mr Flecc, apart from the price, but the motor does appear to be different as indeed does the battery rating. Presumably you need a bit more mAH to power a bigger motor? Also hopefully 250W would give you a "bit more" up those darn hills!
Yes that extra wattage will certainly help, the Powacycle Cambridge motor isn't very powerful. It seems to me that Electricbikesales with those bikes and their Urban Raiders and Powacycle with some of their models are doing a sort of "pick a mix" from the same Chinese manufacturer. A look through the range of each shows many likenesses.
That interpretation of the law is technically wrong as the throttle control is from the UK law only, and the 250 watt from the Euro law only for solo bikes, though UK law allows 250 watts with trikes. I suppose one could ride about with one kiddies stabiliser attached and claim it's a trike. I can't see how they could beat that, though the police could prosecute for reckless riding with one wheel off the ground.
That interpretation of the law is technically wrong as the throttle control is from the UK law only, and the 250 watt from the Euro law only for solo bikes, though UK law allows 250 watts with trikes. I suppose one could ride about with one kiddies stabiliser attached and claim it's a trike.
I can't see how they could beat that, though the police could prosecute for reckless riding with one wheel off the ground.
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That's true. In Italy a lot of bikes with hub motor use the throttle to control the percentage of pedal assistance. Throttle (or switch) is not legal only if it makes the bike go without pedalling, as it happens in my country mostly on cheap chinese imported bikes.
I agree, but I'm not sure if that was what was meant on the Electricbikesales site. It seems a bit ambiguous and could mislead.
Even 'A to B' aren't entirely sure, they categorise machines as "pedelecs", "hybrids" or "e-bikes" each with varying degrees of legality. The Cambridge gets a mention in their listings, but they don't categorise it under any of the above. It's all a bit grey... think I'll forget the electric bike idea and get one of these...eBay.co.uk: jet powerd bike forget electric and powabyke build this (item 220068842123 end time 13-Jan-07 12:19:16 GMT)
Now that really would upset motorists. The ones following that is!
The legal confusion isn't surprising when the DoT says it doesn't know the real position until the courts have tested it. That's why I doubt the police would enter this minefield. I worked in a voluntary capacity in both informal and formal associations with two divisions of the Metropolitan Police over a number of years and know how much they aim for cut and dried situations. Any chance of difficulty and it's "cut and run" instead!
The legal confusion isn't surprising when the DoT says it doesn't know the real position until the courts have tested it. That's why I doubt the police would enter this minefield. I worked in a voluntary capacity in both informal and formal associations with two divisions of the Metropolitan Police over a number of years and know how much they aim for cut and dried situations. Any chance of difficulty and it's "cut and run" instead!
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