Is it legal?

[Tinker]

Is it legal to have an electric bike, (or in this case a sit up & beg trike), that is restricted to 15mph by the gearing?
The motor would either be a 500watt or possibly a 1000watt cyclone on 48volts.
reason for asking is I'm knocking up a 'shopping' trike and have both motors lying around the shed they's go through a 3 speed internal hub and be pedal assist no-throttle.
Speed is not an issue.

 

[the_killjoy]

Unfortunately No,

The bike must not assist past 15mph AND not be more than 250W

 

[amigafan2003]

It may not be legal, but really, who's going to care if you're not going more than 15mph?

Just don't run anyone over

The cyclone kits aren't exactly unobtrusive though - you can hear one coming from miles away - worth thinking about.

 

[Morgann]

The cyclone kits aren't exactly unobtrusive though - you can hear one coming from miles away - worth thinking about.

So, what's the quietest kit on the market? Come to that, what are the quietest ebikes out there?

 

[Tinker]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm not too worried about the noise as basically it will only be used in town, It's an old Pashley trike with a large basket on the back & anyone who has ridden one of those will know that they tend to tip at any sort of speed, if they can get it to go straight & they're not going around in circles.
On the noise front there is an old boy round here who has an old 20" wheel shopper powered by a car starter motor powered by a 12v lead truck battery on a bracket between his legs, you can hear him coming the other side of the valley.

 

[indalo]

So, what's the quietest kit on the market? Come to that, what are the quietest ebikes out there?

Having tried a number of different types of bike over the last few months and quietness of operation being important to me, I'd say both the Panasonic and Bosch-powered crank-drives are smooth and very quiet but equally, some gearless hub-driven bikes are similar including the Cytronex model I have.

I rode something a while back which sounded like an electric milk float although I can't actually remember what it was though it might have been a Powercycle or something of similar ilk. Whatever it was, it was my shortest ever test-ride on an ebike as I didn't like it at all. I also rode one of those Infinium machines with a stacking battery system and didn't like that either although I don't think it was noise which put me off that one, if memory serves me right.

The one which did surprise me somewhat was the Bosch-powered Haibike as I imagined it would probably be noisy with a claimed 50Nm of torque. It wasn't much noisier than my low-powered Panasonic machine which remains near-silent at all times.

As for kits, I've never tried one so can't comment.

Indalo

 

[amigafan2003]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm not too worried about the noise as basically it will only be used in town,

Actually, I meant the opposite. If you were in the middle of nowhere with no people around sound wouldn't matter.

Illegal ebikes only really become an issue when they become obvious or a nuisance (which sound certainly counts as).

As a copper or a do gooder - what would attract your attention more?

1: A cycle with a tiny motor, battery mounted in a pannier bag, wiring concealed, doing 25mph with the rider pedaling all the time.
2: A big, heavy bike with a huge motor attached to the down tube, with big batteries and cabling visible, making a really loud milk float noise even though it was only doing 15mph?

If a cycle looks like a cycle and is being ridden like a cycle then no one will bat an eyelid.

 

[flecc]

So, what's the quietest kit on the market? Come to that, what are the quietest ebikes out there?

The quietest kit on the market is the BionX one by far, not cheap though.

The quietest bikes are those with direct drive hub motors from BionX, Sparta and Koga, and many of the crank drive bikes like those using the Panasonic unit

At the noisy end are Heinzmann, Cyclone and Currie Electrodrive kits.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm not too worried about the noise as basically it will only be used in town, It's an old Pashley trike with a large basket on the back & anyone who has ridden one of those will know that they tend to tip at any sort of speed, if they can get it to go straight & they're not going around in circles.

Member SteveW fitted a 500 watt Cyclone kit to a trike for his mobile cycle repair business covering parts of South London, Kent and Surrey, and hasn't reported any problems with using it. I can't remember what trike, but it was either a Pashley or a Powatryke.

You could mail or ring him if wished:

steve.watkin1@btinternet.com

01689 837602

07748 655201

 

[Tinker]

Thanks flecc but I don't really foresee any real problems. I put a 650w Cyclone into a vintage Moulton quite a while ago and it's still going strong, the only problem with that was solved by fitting those white balloon tyres from a Raleigh shopper

 

[Tinker]

amigafan2003.
I totally agree with your sentiments but I think you have maybe had a bad experience of Cyclones or perhaps witnessed one 'straining', when they are geared correctly they are no nosier than a Currie & we had a Trek ladies Enlightened which was even noiser.
As for 'huge motor attached to the down tube', don't worry the motor & battery will be hidden away by the large wicker shopping basket on the back .

 

[morphix]

Is it legal to have an electric bike, (or in this case a sit up & beg trike), that is restricted to 15mph by the gearing?
The motor would either be a 500watt or possibly a 1000watt cyclone on 48volts.
reason for asking is I'm knocking up a 'shopping' trike and have both motors lying around the shed they's go through a 3 speed internal hub and be pedal assist no-throttle.
Speed is not an issue.

I think the legal position is, as soon as you put a motor over 250W onto anything it becomes a motorbike and requires registration and licensing etc to use it legally on the road, even if you're restricting it to 15mph. It's just not legal to put it on the road. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but that's the way I understand the law.

 

[Tinker]

That's what I originally thought but I've met a number of electric bike owners who have bikes with an 'off-road' switch which boosts them over 15mph with no pedal assist. I would think their motors must be more than 250.

 

[flecc]

In truth they are all more than 250 watts Tinker. Although specified for legal purposes as nominally 250 watts, they typically peak at around double that, and some can even reach over 700 watts peak but still be classed as legal. 250 watts only at all times would have very limited use.

You can deduce this from their controllers which typically are capable of from 12 to 20 amps on the common 36 volts. That equals consumptions of 432 to 720 watts, referred to as gross power. After allowing for around 20% efficiency losses, that means 346 to 576 watts of actual drive (net) power down to the road typically.

 

[morphix]

In truth they are all more than 250 watts Tinker. Although specified for legal purposes as nominally 250 watts, they typically peak at around double that, and some can even reach over 700 watts peak but still be classed as legal. 250 watts only at all times would have very limited use.

You can deduce this from their controllers which typically are capable of from 12 to 20 amps on the common 36 volts. That equals consumptions of 432 to 720 watts, referred to as gross power. After allowing for around 20% efficiency losses, that means 346 to 576 watts of actual drive (net) power down to the road typically.

I wonder how many have actually been stopped and checked by the police, and how they would go about checking if a motor is legal? I've passed many police and none have taken the slightest bit of interest in my bike...except for one time I nearly got stopped as I was riding a bit fast on an (unused) footpath alongside the sorting office in town and some policeman didn't like that and gave me a perplexed look..I think he was trying to figure out what the hell my bike was! Looked like he was going to call me over, but I was gone before he had chance!!

 

[flecc]

I know of two cases, one at least after the e-bike was involved in an accident and the traffic officer delved into the matter of the e-bike's power. Don't forget a number of police forces have e-bikes now and many more have had them on trial.

 

[Tinker]

I was talking to a guy who has a Cyclone powered mountain bike, he was very coy regarding the motors power and told me (with a grin) that you can buy 'the 250w label for any of the motors'.
I guess if you're sensible no-one's going to know.