~Is 15 MPH enough? Discuss

[countryman663]

I have just begun using a pedelec after many years of not cycling at all. I use it to commute to and from work every day, a mildly hilly round trip of around 14 miles. Nothing spectacular but I don't think I would have done it if I hadn't been encouraged by the discussions on this forum.

I am 54, moderately fit through walking, Kayaking Camping etc but have never been a keen or accomplished cyclist. In the very few weeks I have been using my bike I have been impressed by the great support it gives up the hills. however here is the point.

My average speed on these journey to date has been 17.5 mph. There are long sections where the support does not kick in (good for your health and your battery you cry).

Now I am happy with this situation for this short commute but if someone with little cycling experience and endurance can exceed the 15 mph limit set for these bikes...

• Is the limit too low
• is the low limit putting of people from buying Pedelec's because they wont get the boost they need
• What would you propose is a more suitable but sensible limit 18mph? 20MPH?

(see debates about misuse of "off road" unlimited cycles and the potential damage to pedelec cyclists reputations and the obvious interest in mild tuning via dongles and control systems)
I look forward to hearing your informed, well balanced and not too scathing comments!
thanks
PS Bike is Bosch Powered 2013 AVE SH5

 

[martin@onbike]

I believe the cut off is more than adequate for an "Electrically ASSISTED Cycle".

I tend to cycle at around 18mph on most bikes under my own steam the majority of the time, so the assistance only kicks in when i really need it....when i naturally slow down for whatever reason-hills being the most obvious.

This gives me the excercise i require without busting a gut, but keeps the whole ride feeling fairly natural as it is within my usual limits of speed.

If i want the thrills, i choose to brake less as i descend the hills and easily get 30- 38mph...which feels more than fast enough on a pushbike with no real protection.

I'm sure we have all wished at times for more assistance, but in my opinion this pushes the bikes into the realms of a different kind of transport altogether, perfectly illustrated to me one time as i was on my 50cc scooter and was undertaken by a guy in the cycle lane going 35mph and not pedalling (looked like 2 magic pie motors)!
I can't repeat what i uttered to myself, but was less than impressed really.

The trouble is, whatever speed is allowed, we (humans) will always want to push it that bit further...

Keep it sensibly low and people will still exceed it, but not at such a dangerous level.

It's only going to take a couple of high profile "child squashed by souped up E-bike" cases to ruin it for all of us-as illustrated by the certain you tube video of the guy taking a short cut over the footpath i saw on here earlier.

 

[KirstinS]

Personally I'd like a small increase to 18

Initially my time it took to commute increased from unassisted until I raised the voltage a little to 44.4v

That is simply not good good enough when your primary purpose is commuting. Those minutes lost on the road are minutes I don't spend with my kids

Many users, just take a look at the "how old are you" are retired. I think this does give a slightly different view. Retirees are often time rich which us workers are not !

I just think the limit does close the market down a little

I tend towards view that small increase would positive whilst retaining the 250w ( for all its flaws!)

 

[Malfunction]

I think 15mph is probably enough given the state of the roads!! It's the overall journey time that matters, in busy traffic it's normally quicker for short commutes to take the bike.
Regarding the idiot on youtube, he should be banned from riding a bike, I don't really care if he kills himself but he will probably take an innocent person with him.

 

[flecc]

Some while ago I posted a full explanation of why I think the limit is appropriate. Below is the link to that:

15mph assist limit justification

And of course, if the limit was raised to 18mph, immediately there would be those calling for 20mph, this process has no end.
.

 

[timidtom]

Yep, 15mph is fine for me! Juicy J hurtles along at up t0 25mph downhill (wind in my hair and flies in my teeth) so I'm happy!
Tom

Am I allowed to overtake cars in 20mph limits?

 

[Gringo]

Like most folks, I want to go faster & further, I recon I'm old / wise enough to know where and when to go fast, but there are to many out there that don't.
I've seen many cyclists without e-power riding like idiots on cycle paths shared with pedestrians.

 

[Scimitar]

More power, more speed, yeah.
Actually, even with 750W in my back wheel, after the initial rush of enthusiasm for it, I have tended to cruise along at 18 or 20mph, as above that it canes the batteries. My throttle is tempered by the ammeter most of the time and that just happens to be the speed it works out at. It's nice to have that bit extra in reserve to outpace the odd mutt, though. I'm absolutely bloody sure, that if it hadn't been for that, my ankles would have several bite marks on them by now, the dog owners would have had several boot marks on them and there would have been some real unpleasantness going on.
See, it does make sense after all.

 

[amigafan2003]

I'm happy with the limits where they are.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

P

Many users, just take a look at the "how old are you" are retired. I think this does give a slightly different view. Retirees are often time rich which us workers are not !

No, that's not right. We haven't got long to live, so we have to make very second count.

 

[Streethawk]

I feel it's a little low, but i am a full motorcycle license holder and perhaps that's influencing me. I wouldn't be offended by some sort of licensing for faster ebikes such as in Germany. That would suit me down to the ground. My last motorbike was good for almost 200mph, i never got near it, but it was just as legal as any other bike that would only do half that.

We dont limit the top speed (or power) of cars or motorbikes so why do we have to with ebikes? If only bikes that are 15.6mph are the only ones that can be ridden without a license then i'd be happy with that, and just get the necessary license for myself.

 

[Blew it]

17.5 mph average!, we eat your dust Sir!

If my memory serves correctly, the last time this subject was discussed at length on this forum, the general consensus of opinion was that more power for hill-climbing was required rather than higher assisted speed on the flat. Not so surprising considering most, if not the majority of e-bikers are over fifty years of age.

On any journey, the time taken to complete is an average of the whole. If a great many hills are encountered, or the strong headwinds typical of flat areas such as Lincolnshire, then higher power rather than higher on-the-flat speed is needed. The two elements can be separated, particularly with the highly sophisticated control systems found on Panasonic, Bosch and other crank-drive examples but, limited to the durability of conventional bicycle transmission components, components which are designed to accommodate human power only.

countryman663 said:

"My average speed on these journey to date has been 17.5 mph. There are long sections where the support does not kick in."

I hope you will not take this as offensive, but I honestly believe you have exhausted the possible usefulness of an EAPC as your choice of vehicle. If you wish to increase your average speed on your journey, then it has to be an electric scooter with at least a 4 kilowatt motor. You would of course lose the right to use shared paths. A full helmet, insurance and a one-time registration fee would also be required.

The cheapest way to increase your average journey-time, believe it or not, would be a 50cc four-stroke moped. I know this sounds a little strange, but when factoring in the cost of replacement batteries, over-stressed transmissions, tyres and brake components of what is intrinsically a bicycle, the 50 or 100cc four-stroke moped wins hands down. And not forgetting, they generally have better weather protection than a bicycle.

Stay safe
Bob

PS: Snap! Soon to be the owner of 2013 AVE XH-7

 

[cwah]

Yesterday I've meet a group of cyclist going easily at 20-25mph without motor.

I was thinking my ebike was too slow lol

 

[jazper53]

Some while ago I posted a full explanation of why I think the limit is appropriate. Below is the link to that:

15mph assist limit justification

And of course, if the limit was raised to 18mph, immediately there would be those calling for 20mph, this process has no end.
.

I think 20mph is a quite reasonable maximum for e-bikes and would make e-bikes a little more attractive to the younger generations

 

[GaRRy]

We dont limit the top speed (or power) of cars or motorbikes so why do we have to with ebikes?

But we do.
Mopeds 30 mph
125 12 BHP
Larger bikes for first two years unless pass higher test 33 BHP

As for cars not many can afford the price or insurance of the super fast vehicles.

and the other diffrence is for all of the above you are expected to take and pass a test to prove you are competent (debatable )

Dont object to a faster class with licence/insurance etc (but then why not just not get a moped). But current limit seems about right for what is meant to be a assisted bicycle. Any way the bike it not restricted to 15 mph just the assistance.

 

[oigoi]

Given that a reasonably fit person on a good road bike can ride along at 20mph quite comfortably I see no reason why an ebike should not be allowed to assist to a comparable speed. They represent the same risk to anyone else and the cyclist does not require insurance or registration

 

[flecc]

We dont limit the top speed (or power) of cars or motorbikes so why do we have to with ebikes?

Because car and motorcycle drivers are tested for competence, e-bike riders aren't, so the limits must be set for a low level of competence. Public safety has to come first.

 

[Streethawk]

Because car and motorcycle drivers are tested for competence, e-bike riders aren't, so the limits must be set for a low level of competence. Public safety has to come first.

Yet a full car license grants the right to ride a 50cc moped without any further test, yet not an S-pedelec with similar or slightly lesser performance. insurance, if the class was recognised would be almost a non-issue for most adults as it would be extremely cheap in the scheme of things, helmets would have to be cycle specific, which would require a change to the law.

 

[jazper53]

I am sure these bureaucrats who place these restrictions on e-bikes regard them as a short step up from mobility scooters and users are needed to be protected from themselves as we may not understand the difference between minimum and maximum.

 

[ghouluk]

to be honest, i don't really care about the law, i care about the way the battery dies much faster as speeds get slightly higher.

I've been riding a zero motorcycles electric motorbike this week - good fun! and i'm considering something additional pedelec for pure off road fun, but while originally my plan was to get something super powered, i'm now thinking of getting a better off road bike with legal or thereabouts motor.

my riding is all leisure though and generally 20-60 miles, so maybe thats why.

I also think that if you started to raise the speed, you'd start to see calls for a test, then insurance, then helmets....so id say if it aint broke don't fix it.