Is £800 enough money to spend on an everyday ride to work bike.

[Kudoscycles]

I moved this thread to a more popular part of the forum because I felt it was of such general interest and varying views would be valid. It came from a forum member who thought £800 was a lot of money to pay for an everyday commuter bike.
Your comment £800 is a lot of money for an e-bike. Dont forget that HMRC take £140.00 of that in vat and you have to include £20.00 delivery cost. That leaves £640.00 for the bike,electrics and battery and importer would like to make a profit.
I find that the UK customer does not want to spend more than £1000.00 on an electric bike,which means that all us importers have to build to that budget. Thats not to say we build poor quality bikes,it just means we cant build using the best quality components available to us...for example the cheaper bikes all use the Shimano Tourney gears,whereas the Deore gears will last longer.
The BPM motor is stronger than the SWX motor,hydraulic brakes are better than cable brakes etc etc
I think you need to spend minimum £1300.00 to get a Chinese e-bike which has all the parts necessary to use every day as a ride to work bike,if it is a German bike that is probably close to £2000.00
IMHO £800 is not enough money to spend on an e-bike if you want the best parts,especially if you want local dealer support. However £800 should get you a capable bike which is used occassionaly as a leisure ride.
Flak caps at the ready,hehe!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Artstu]

The biggest issue for a commuter bike is where it's parked whilst you're at work. If it had to be left on the street I wouldn't want to be using anything worth more than £100.

 

[flecc]

I moved this thread to a more popular part of the forum because I felt it was of such general interest and varying views would be valid. It came from a forum member who thought £800 was a lot of money to pay for an everyday commuter bike.
Your comment £800 is a lot of money for an e-bike. Dont forget that HMRC take £140.00 of that in vat and you have to include £20.00 delivery cost. That leaves £640.00 for the bike,electrics and battery and importer would like to make a profit.
I find that the UK customer does not want to spend more than £1000.00 on an electric bike,which means that all us importers have to build to that budget. Thats not to say we build poor quality bikes,it just means we cant build using the best quality components available to us...for example the cheaper bikes all use the Shimano Tourney gears,whereas the Deore gears will last longer.
The BPM motor is stronger than the SWX motor,hydraulic brakes are better than cable brakes etc etc
I think you need to spend minimum £1300.00 to get a Chinese e-bike which has all the parts necessary to use every day as a ride to work bike,if it is a German bike that is probably close to £2000.00
IMHO £800 is not enough money to spend on an e-bike if you want the best parts,especially if you want local dealer support. However £800 should get you a capable bike which is used occassionaly as a leisure ride.
Flak caps at the ready,hehe!!!!
KudosDave

I think that's a very reasonable summary Dave, the £800 bike will show earlier wear and won't have puncture resistant tyres, both being a considerable nuisance to a daily commuter.

Sodds law will ensure any breakdown will occur either in the mornings when one's running late for work, or when tired after dark on the way home in heavy rain.
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[Emo Rider]

I moved this thread to a more popular part of the forum because I felt it was of such general interest and varying views would be valid. It came from a forum member who thought £800 was a lot of money to pay for an everyday commuter bike.
Your comment £800 is a lot of money for an e-bike. Dont forget that HMRC take £140.00 of that in vat and you have to include £20.00 delivery cost. That leaves £640.00 for the bike,electrics and battery and importer would like to make a profit.
I find that the UK customer does not want to spend more than £1000.00 on an electric bike,which means that all us importers have to build to that budget. Thats not to say we build poor quality bikes,it just means we cant build using the best quality components available to us...for example the cheaper bikes all use the Shimano Tourney gears,whereas the Deore gears will last longer.
The BPM motor is stronger than the SWX motor,hydraulic brakes are better than cable brakes etc etc
I think you need to spend minimum £1300.00 to get a Chinese e-bike which has all the parts necessary to use every day as a ride to work bike,if it is a German bike that is probably close to £2000.00
IMHO £800 is not enough money to spend on an e-bike if you want the best parts,especially if you want local dealer support. However £800 should get you a capable bike which is used occassionaly as a leisure ride.
Flak caps at the ready,hehe!!!!
KudosDave

No flak from me. I could not agree more. It is the old saying "You get what you pay for." Still there are people out there that feel that a Dacia Duster is going to perform and last like a BMW X6 does. Yes, they get a similar vehicle that costs under 10 grand but besides the four tyres and a steering that's where the similarities end.

 

[trex]

I agree with KD, £800 does not leave the importers/manufacturers with sufficient profit to stay in business.
if you are on a £800 budget, you should either reduce your expectations or convert an old bike.

 

[KirstinS]

I agree with KD, £800 does not leave the importers/manufacturers with sufficient profit to stay in business.
if you are on a £800 budget, you should either reduce your expectations or convert an old bike.

Agree 800 can easily do a good home conversion, I did

2013 charge cooker hardtial , avid hydro and sram 2 x 10 = 246 fleabay
Gsm kit = 250 delivered from woosh
Battery = 320 for a huge 16ah Panasonic celled dolphin /09 (Jimmy at insat )

You could spend less on bike and battery and still be ok for daily use.

Fully agree that 800 from a dealer isn't enough though.

 

[gray198]

Don't Woosh sell bikes at that price point. Never ridden one but they seem to get good reviews

 

[flecc]

Don't Woosh sell bikes at that price point. Never ridden one but they seem to get good reviews

They do, but at that price point they have to use low cost* components. That's fine for a leisure use e-bike, hence the favourable reviews, but every day distance commuting in all conditions is very tough on any bike. The subsequent wear and tear rate will become a considerable inconvenience and expense over time.

* But see this post
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[oldtom]

IMHO £800 is not enough money to spend on an e-bike if you want the best parts,especially if you want local dealer support. However £800 should get you a capable bike which is used occassionaly as a leisure ride.
KudosDave

It's a fair point and perspective can be found in the world of regular push-bikes. £800 buys a pretty decent spec on many well-regarded brands. In the world of EAPCs, it's different and one sure way to test the old adage, 'You buy cheap - you buy twice!' is to spend £800 on a new one and use that machine as your essential commuting method.

For anyone unfamiliar with bicycles, it's worth looking carefully at Dutch bikes. Many of their best machines are almost maintenance free and they exude that 'built to last' quality which is very popular in the low countries and in Germany. My point is that quality componentry doesn't come cheap and if a bike is to be the daily method of commuting, it would be unwise to attach the cheapest tyres, devoid of any real puncture protection, to the rims. Equally, it would be foolish to expect much from the cheapest gearsets and other components - they are cheap for a reason.

Yes, there's that guy down the pub who bought one off fleabay for £50 and he's been riding it every day for 5 years - never had anything go wrong - but there's always one of those in everything. Are you that lucky?

As others have commented, £800 should procure a pretty decent kit with a large capacity battery with enough left over to purchase a decent second-hand hybrid for commuting.

Tom

 

[trex]

They do, but at that price point they have to use the lowest cost components.
.

that's a bit harsh. 3 years ago, woosh moved from Zoom disc brakes to tektro Novela disc brakes and since last year, from Tektro Novela to Avid disc brakes on all their bikes. You don't find other bikes under £1,000 with Tektro Novela brakes or the more expensive Avid brakes. At the same time, the chain got upgraded from Z series to X series and the crankset from square to GXP. The Karoo for example has Ahead headset, Ounce 245 GXP crankset, KMC X-8 chain, Avid BB5 front and rear, acera derailleur. They are not exactly cheap components for a £749 bike.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo

 

[Alan Quay]

I agree with others, KD's analysis is spot on.

I said it a few months back, but home builds can save money. You can now get a CST kit in the UK for £550 or so (the price varies, Woosh and Oxydrive) or about the same landed from China.

Then add a SH half decent bike (£200-300) and you have a machine good for 5000-10000 miles with only a few service items required.

I think people get a bit silly about saving money on a commuter machine. I don't think you can run a cheap car for less than about 2k a year all in. You can run an expensive ebike for about a quarter of that.

 

[flecc]

that's a bit harsh.

I've changed the original post from "the lowest cost" to "low cost" and added an asterisked comment linked to your post Trex.

You can view those changes and additions on this link
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[trex]

thank you. The zoom disc brakes on the woosh bikes up to about 3 years ago were a real calamity.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have read many forum members who decry the English/Chinese e-bikes,often with the comment I am going German next time. But with the attitude ' I don't want to spend more than £1000' it restricts the selection of parts to satisfy that budget.
The Germans are not so restricted,they often select from the same Chinese parts bin, but have a much higher budget to work to.
My Kudos Rapide and Sonata were built to be quality rather than price led,the selection of parts was the best available,if it had a German badge on the front it would be priced at £500 more.They do sell at £1300.00 but not in any volume.
I am working on 2 new bikes at the moment,it's a shame not to use the best parts but the Englishman,in general,wants cheap,these bikes will use the best of the lower cost parts.
How did we become such a price led country yet the Germans value quality?
As a designer it's all a bit frustrating,our UK e-bikes could be so much better,often the equal of the Germans,but if the market isn't interested in quality it's a pointless exercise.
It's not so much you get what you pay for,it's more you get what you want to pay for.
KudosDave

 

[jwm]

ebike boutique?

 

[Artstu]

our UK e-bikes could be so much better,often the equal of the Germans,but if the market isn't interested in quality it's a pointless exercise.

It's the perception of quality, I myself don't perceive the quality of Chinese assembled bikes like yours to be as good as European brands. I also don't believe (perceive) the electrical bits are comparable to Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano.

Rightly so you are cautious to offer a better equipped and therefore more expensive bike, as you'll have the challenge of persuading the customer it's worth the money and is every bit as good as a European bike.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's the challenge you face, convincing someone like me that your bike is just as good as the Eurobike.

 

[JohnCade]

Of course Made in Japanese used to be a mark of a poor product until they established themselves as a country making good quality goods. Similarly in time Chinese goods will also be considered to be quality if they are at the quality end of the market. Apple is a quality product and has been made in China for getting on for two decades now and they are not judged as worse than European products.

The problem with pedelecs is that the Chinese don’t seem to actually make any which compare to the best European brands in build quality. They could if they tried I sure, but they don’t now.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It's the perception of quality, I myself don't perceive the quality of Chinese assembled bikes like yours to be as good as European brands. I also don't believe (perceive) the electrical bits are comparable to Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano.

Rightly so you are cautious to offer a better equipped and therefore more expensive bike, as you'll have the challenge of persuading the customer it's worth the money and is every bit as good as a European bike.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's the challenge you face, convincing someone like me that your bike is just as good as the Eurobike.

Artstu, from memory at the Manifold Trail event you had a lovely Dahon folder,I remember admiring that bike. The Dahon is,I think,100 per cent manufactured in China.
I sell Kudos,alongside KTM and Haibike so I don't have to persuade anyone to make a choice between UK/Chinese and German/Chinese,I let my customers make that decision.
Looking at threads elsewhere on this forum....Kalkhoff/Impulse seems to have considerable motor problems,the like of which I have never experienced with the Bafang motor product.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

I have read many forum members who decry the English/Chinese e-bikes,often with the comment I am going German next time.

I think nobody gets it wrong by going German on the count of quality but many a time I wonder if we are not looking at the issue from the wrong end of the telescope. We can all agree that low maintenance is essential. Take the issue of motor for example. No Chinese motor that I know of is as well designed and built as any Bosch CD motor but if your design goal is a motor that will do at least 5,000 miles without service then don't think a Bosch motor will beat a basic Bafang SWX on the basis of maintenance or power or ease of use. So for the purpose of a commuter bike, do you need a Bosch motor? you see where I am heading.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trex....I don't know the life of a Bosch motor,Bafang SWX are still going strong after 5 years. But the replacement cost of a Bosch is £500, the replacement cost of an SWX is less than £100.
An old Bosch motored bike with a tired battery surely must be a write off.....crushed to make more Chinese bikes,hehe!
An old SWX motored /LifePo4 battery bike could be kept on the road pretty much indefinitely,at reasonable cost.
KudosDave