Think you're missing the point. I don't use the horn because I'm annoyed. I use it for the reason it's fitted, to warn other road users of danger. It's prats who use their horns for anything else, and there are a lot of prats on the road. Like I said they're the ones who always blast back because they're prats.
Invisible Bike
- Thread starter Gubbins
- Start date
No, I get your point entirely.. I probably just worded it badly.. its just that in some areas a friendly warning may be taken the wrong way..
Recently my neighbour gave me a friendly "Hello" toot as he was passing me from behind.. I nearly jumped off the bike...
And most must have experienced this... A toot from behind is most unwelcome!
And most must have experienced this... A toot from behind is most unwelcome!
Ha. Ha. Let's all have a laugh.. I don't have one but it varies between jeans and high vis council type jacket in winter and shorts and aldi jersey in summer. My wife says I sm an embarrassment but I just don't care!
I once attended a police defensive riding course. On that course you are taught to look for possible dangers and take appropriate action to avoid an accident.
The police give a verbal assessment of the road ahead indicating possible dangers,this road scene had three possible danger points...
1 The grey car executing the U turn would have had a very fine angle of view of oncoming traffic.
2 The car crossing may not have been able to exit the x-hatched area quickly.
3 The red car would have been blind to oncoming traffic ,his view blocked by the crossing vehicle.
And yet the cyclist seems oblivious to these dangers,makes no attempt to slow when presented with the obvious dangers and was lucky to avoid a collision with the red car.
I respect that the red car should not have pulled out especially if he was unsighted by the crossing vehicle but cyclists should ride in a more defensive manner.
The whole incident could have been avoided if the cyclist had slowed when entering the danger zone,but cyclists don't like losing the momentum.
Why the hurry ?
KudosDave
The police give a verbal assessment of the road ahead indicating possible dangers,this road scene had three possible danger points...
1 The grey car executing the U turn would have had a very fine angle of view of oncoming traffic.
2 The car crossing may not have been able to exit the x-hatched area quickly.
3 The red car would have been blind to oncoming traffic ,his view blocked by the crossing vehicle.
And yet the cyclist seems oblivious to these dangers,makes no attempt to slow when presented with the obvious dangers and was lucky to avoid a collision with the red car.
I respect that the red car should not have pulled out especially if he was unsighted by the crossing vehicle but cyclists should ride in a more defensive manner.
The whole incident could have been avoided if the cyclist had slowed when entering the danger zone,but cyclists don't like losing the momentum.
Why the hurry ?
KudosDave
I can't disagree with anything you're saying, but. I think one frustration as a cyclist for me is feeling I haven't been given equality of respect as a road user (although lesser visibility than cars may be mostly the explanation). I think it's the conviction that somehow I'm visible or people ought to see me and then they don't which makes it bewildering sometimes when they don't (or act as if they don't).
I suppose the faster you go (on an ebike that's easier) the more such incidents one's going to encounter. Although ebiking is at least one better than unpowered biking because one can slow down without actual personal energy cost in speeding up again, so there isn't a physical element to the frustration. So ebiking in theory ought to support defensive cycling. Of course it also supports fast cycling, so I suppose it could go the other way too.
I don't think speed or momentum is an issue here.. If I had the dongle fitted one could argue that this incident would have been an accident. .. well, an accident happens at a presice moment in time and with a dongle, at that moment I would have been a mile up the road.. defensive riding is fine but it's a bit like waiting for the green man to show when the road is clear anyway, and where is the fun in that?
I admit that I take a considered risk at times and also that any control I think have over situations like this is just an illusion ....
I admit that I take a considered risk at times and also that any control I think have over situations like this is just an illusion ....
I know you've said its not about the speed, but I think I can give you a few examples that I think might help.
Its not about the speed you're going, its about the speed the drivers expect you to be going, and how much room / time to give you.
Your riding a "normal" looking bike, in normal.. .ie not sports / performance clothing. So people will give you a glance and make a perception of the speed you're travelling at based on your age, the fact its a bicycle and your dress.
If you were dressed in full Lycra they'd probably have a more accurate guess of what you're likely to do speed wise, based on the fact you're on an eBike.
I commuted in an out of Manchester for 10 years, when I dressed casually I had more problems because people simply didn't expect me to be going as fast as I was.
Same is true for my Dad, he's 70 now, but can rides 100 - 200 miles a week on his road bike. He goes a lot faster then people expect, but because he dresses like a performance cyclist, he never has any problems with traffic.
I suspect if he road in jeans and looked like a 70 year old, he'd have people misjudging his speed and the gaps they should allow him all the time.
As drivers and bikers we have the advantage of experiencing being overtaken inappropriately but when you approach a lone cyclist tootling along it is easy to see how he/she can be quickly discounted from your attention, but when you come across 2 or more together they demand attention and are less easy for your brain to discount them . Ever heard the expression " he came out of nowhere". I don't think drivers particularly hate cyclists... They just don't notice them. One has to make an effort to be noticed....
They see you, but then fail to take the appropriate action. In this instance the driver could also have failed to see you altogether with that lamp post right in his line of sight to you.
Perhaps time to buy some lycra Phill
All good points. But you would look a bit of a tit wearing the full roadie gear on a normal e bike. In the years I used to ride a road bike for fitness I dressed appropriately in tight bright lycra. But wearing my old day glow tops now on my rather staid looking Kalkhoff I would look a bit odd. I still wear the long padded shorts in season, and I don't think I've ridden without them for many a decade. But in summer I put a pair of rugby shorts over them and a normal T shirt. I probably look the part more in winter though with my tight padded winter cycling trousers and bright waterproof jackets.
all true... but my point is that on an eBike dressed casually, you're going faster than the traffic will expect.
So either we need to educate all drivers that there are going to be some cyclists who look like leisure cyclists will be going at sport cyclists speeds and to be aware of that.
unlikely to happen...
Or more likely... if you're riding an eBike on the roads, expect the fact that people won't realise how fast you're going and ride accordingly.
So either we need to educate all drivers that there are going to be some cyclists who look like leisure cyclists will be going at sport cyclists speeds and to be aware of that.
unlikely to happen...
Or more likely... if you're riding an eBike on the roads, expect the fact that people won't realise how fast you're going and ride accordingly.
Actually I am surprised and very respectful of the reaction to my posting....I thought I was going to get pilloried for taking an overal view rather than supporting the cyclist.
I live in a retirement area which has a number of poor sighted old Nissan Micra drivers,most should not be still on the road,but they are reluctant to give up their motorcar aka independence. These people take for ever to complete a manoeuvre,usually pulling out minutes after it was clear to do so,when the road scene is completely different. So I suppose as a car driver and a cyclist I am used to expecting the unexpected and make allowances for it,such incidents are a daily occurrence in our town.
But also bicycles,sport or e-bikes are generally much faster,15-20 mph is the norm now ,5 years ago it was 10 mph ,drivers just don't appreciate h
I live in a retirement area which has a number of poor sighted old Nissan Micra drivers,most should not be still on the road,but they are reluctant to give up their motorcar aka independence. These people take for ever to complete a manoeuvre,usually pulling out minutes after it was clear to do so,when the road scene is completely different. So I suppose as a car driver and a cyclist I am used to expecting the unexpected and make allowances for it,such incidents are a daily occurrence in our town.
But also bicycles,sport or e-bikes are generally much faster,15-20 mph is the norm now ,5 years ago it was 10 mph ,drivers just don't appreciate h
My posting got chopped.
Drivers just don't appreciate how fast a bicycle is upon them.In this incident the red car driver I am sure looked right his view of the bicycle was masked by the crossing vehicle. If the cyclist had been a car then the chances of spotting it round the crossing vehicle would have been greater.
He was clearly looking left to spot a gap to pull out.
But,if the cyclist had hit the car,he would have been hurt,over the top probably,the car would have had a dented panel. The point I am making is that it's no good telling the ambulance driver you were in the right !!!
Don't know what the solution is other than seperate bicycles and cars.thats not going to happen, so it's up to the cyclist to ride defensively to protect himself.
KudosDave
Drivers just don't appreciate how fast a bicycle is upon them.In this incident the red car driver I am sure looked right his view of the bicycle was masked by the crossing vehicle. If the cyclist had been a car then the chances of spotting it round the crossing vehicle would have been greater.
He was clearly looking left to spot a gap to pull out.
But,if the cyclist had hit the car,he would have been hurt,over the top probably,the car would have had a dented panel. The point I am making is that it's no good telling the ambulance driver you were in the right !!!
Don't know what the solution is other than seperate bicycles and cars.thats not going to happen, so it's up to the cyclist to ride defensively to protect himself.
KudosDave
"He was right you know. Right all along. But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong."
This would be true if e-bikes were as most people imagine them to be, but, things have changed and a licra clad biker would not look out of place on some of the newer bikes, in fact my own e-bike is not so different from other MTB,s out on the trail, a lot of which are ridden by the licra lads..
Matter of taste I expect. I've had MBs since I moved here in the country and I always wore the same as I wear now. Lycra goes with road bikes and going fast IMO. The last MB I had was used on the road and was fitted with fairly narrow road tyres and was almost as fast as my road bikes when it was up and rolling. But I didn't wear my old lycra on it apart from the padded shorts under some other shorts.
Most off road mountain bikers wouldn't be seen dead in lycra in my experience. That was certainly that case a few years ago anyway. More baggy padded shorts and such.
I'm not surprised Dave, I think more are gradually getting the message. My reading of the OP's incident was the same as yours, it was avoidable and I would not have suffered it since I would have slowed in such a situation. That's why I've never been in collision with anything else in a lifetime of cycling and motorcycling, or even been at serious risk of that. Spending most of my life in London and the Home Counties, I'd rather be late than injured or killed.
The UK roads injury and death rates are the envy of the world, but two sectors still need to greatly improve, motorcycling and cycling. Both can legitimately point to much of the trouble being caused by other road users, but since that trouble is avoidable by their own self-safeguarding actions, for commonsense reasons alone, that is what they should do.
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