Interesting BMW ebike proposals

[Laser Man]

BMW have a couple of concept S-pedelecs with some interesting features -

Huge battery - 300km (186 miles) range.
Use geofencing to restrict to 15mph when using bike lanes, 28mph on city roads and unrestricted out of town.
Radar to warn of traffic behind.

Apparently BMW are already talking to the authorities in Europe to see if the pedelec laws can be changed to reflect these capabilities.

 

[guerney]

2000Wh battery? I'd likely get less than 125 miles @ my usual leisurely 16Wh+ per mile, and even fewer miles at their top speed of 37mph. It's BMW... therefore would new bulbs for those puny looking lights necessitate replacement of the entire handlebar and the bike's software/firmware updated by a BMW certified engineer (after he's paid [a predatory percentage/subscription] to keep his software current) at some insane price in order to make them function, given that they're integrated? I'd buy a user-repairable conversion kit with open standards if it offered the same functionailty, certainly not a BMW or any other branded ebike which uses a proprietary communication protocol!

BMW unveils high-speed electric bicycle with 300 km of range, plus an electric motorcycle

BMW has taken to the IAA Mobility show in Munich, Germany, to unveil two new electric motorbikes with interesting specs...

electrek.co

BMW i Vision AMBY is a high-speed e-bicycle with 300 km of range

 

[Ocsid]

If it and the regulators go ahead there will quickly follow some forum spring up guiding owners through circumventing the restrictions.

 

[guerney]

If it and the regulators go ahead there will quickly follow some forum spring up guiding owners through circumventing the restrictions.

I'd certainly like to believe it's possible to crack strong encryption incorporated within proprietary comms, but doing so may be beyond the capabilities of everyone bar elite hackers using supercomputers at great expense, judging by the difficulties Bosch owners have trying to get their batteries and other parts repaired.

 

[Benjahmin]

Fantastic !
An over complicated, non user repairable, high fault liability, highly expensive bragging machine. Bring it on and watch it decorate garage wall and sheds as one part or another of the system puts it into 'limp' mode or is misunderstood by the user.
Sorry, give me simple functional every time. Hoorah for garden shed engineering.

 

[matthewslack]

Perhaps geofencing could be applied to larger vehicles too!

 

[Ocsid]

Perhaps geofencing could be applied to larger vehicles too!

Just a matter of time, IMO it has to come.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Fantastic !
An over complicated, non user repairable, high fault liability, highly expensive bragging machine. Bring it on and watch it decorate garage wall and sheds as one part or another of the system puts it into 'limp' mode or is misunderstood by the user.
Sorry, give me simple functional every time. Hoorah for garden shed engineering.

The perfect post!
I also cannot see the advantages of such an e-bike.
But I am perfectly happy if it eventually becomes available, just for those with more money than sense, let them buy it....
Maybe BMW will name it after some animal, the "White Elephant" name springs to mind!
Many thanks for your accurate and well thought out post.
Andy

 

[flecc]

Apparently BMW are already talking to the authorities in Europe to see if the pedelec laws can be changed to reflect these capabilities.

They won't get anywhere here in Nanny State Britain with that. We were the only country in Europe refusing to allow their C1 enclosed and safety belted moped to be ridden without a helmet. All other countries in Europe and much of the rest of the world tweaked their laws to allow it.

 

[Andy-Mat]

They won't get anywhere here in Nanny State Britain with that. We were the only country in Europe refusing to allow their C1 enclosed and safety belted moped to be ridden without a helmet. All other countries in Europe and much of the rest of the world tweaked their laws to allow it.

I remember that, but it was also mentioned that a (sudden) side collision, or just skidding, with the bike landing on its side suddenly, would possible damage an unprotected head and if ridden without good gloves, possibly at least one hand too.....
A school friend of mine, around 1962 on his motorbike with full leathers and helmet, in a 30 zone (in Waltham Cross), spent 6 weeks in hospital after a car came out of a side road without stopping. He had a leg with 3 breaks, pelvis and ribs broken.....
The bike was hardly damaged, just a few scratches really.....
I do believe that this is almost now considered to be quite a "standard" accident.....due to some blind car drivers needing a white stick while driving.....
I would say, with hindsight, that the British Government was correct.
One cannot be careful AFTER an accident!
regards
Andy

 

[georgehenry]

Motorbikes are more dangerous than cars but they are very good fun. Choices, choices. I still like riding mine.

 

[flecc]

I remember that, but it was also mentioned that a (sudden) side collision, or just skidding, with the bike landing on its side suddenly, would possible damage an unprotected head and if ridden without good gloves, possibly at least one hand too.....
A school friend of mine, around 1962 on his motorbike with full leathers and helmet, in a 30 zone (in Waltham Cross), spent 6 weeks in hospital after a car came out of a side road without stopping. He had a leg with 3 breaks, pelvis and ribs broken.....
The bike was hardly damaged, just a few scratches really.....
I do believe that this is almost now considered to be quite a "standard" accident.....due to some blind car drivers needing a white stick while driving.....
I would say, with hindsight, that the British Government was correct.
One cannot be careful AFTER an accident!
regards
Andy

Andy, you are so needlessly safety obsessed with imaginary risks I think you must be frightened by your own shadow. How can you bear to live as you do in a country like Germany where about half the autobahn network allows unlimited top speeds? How can you bear to live in a country like Germany where the S class pedelecs are allowed to be assisted at 45 kph (28mph), and have double the rated power at, shock, horror, 500 watts? Or allow others to ride the covered BMW C1 moped without a helmet? A country where e-cars are manufactured with huge lithium bateries which can catch fire, a country where they now have two huge factories making even bigger lithium batteries for Tesla cars.

I can only think you spend your life tut, tutting and shaking your head in disbelief.

Don't you ever consider how people who think like you make life such a misery for others? e.g.

All those who'd like to commute longer distances on an S class pedelec but can't, thanks to people who think like you.

All those who'd like to use a cargo e-bike but are unable to because they can't have enough power for the intended weight, thanks to people who think like you.

Youngsters who can't ride a pedelec because they are under 14, thanks to people who think like you.

All those with a physical limitations so need a throttle to help them get under way on their pedelec. They had a throttle for 43 years of e-biking from 1972 on, but cannot have them since January 2015, thanks to people who think like you.

Andy, you and those who think like you are pests. You'll no doubt accuse me of being unfriendly as you usually do to all opposition, but I'm not being unfriendly. I'm being friendly to the vast majority by calling into question who the hell you think you are to know better than anyone else what is good for them. In other words, your offensive and tiresomely repetitive arrogant lecturing.
.

 

[RoadieRoger]

They won't get anywhere here in Nanny State Britain with that. We were the only country in Europe refusing to allow their C1 enclosed and safety belted moped to be ridden without a helmet. All other countries in Europe and much of the rest of the world tweaked their laws to allow it.

I tested one of those when they came out and it caused a stir when I rode it down the main street in Barry . Shame it was killed off here . It was rather top heavy but the Aprilia 125 cc Motor was adequate . Graphite /carbon fibre construction might have fixed too much weight high up .

 

[Andy-Mat]

Andy, you are so needlessly safety obsessed with imaginary risks I think you must be frightened by your own shadow. How can you bear to live as you do in a country like Germany where about half the autobahn network allows unlimited top speeds? How can you bear to live in a country like Germany where the S class pedelecs are allowed to be assisted at 45 kph (28mph), and have double the rated power at, shock, horror, 500 watts? Or allow others to ride the covered BMW C1 moped without a helmet? A country where e-cars are manufactured with huge lithium bateries which can catch fire, a country where they now have two huge factories making even bigger lithium batteries for Tesla cars.

I can only think you spend your life tut, tutting and shaking your head in disbelief.

Don't you ever consider how people who think like you make life such a misery for others? e.g.

All those who'd like to commute longer distances on an S class pedelec but can't, thanks to people who think like you.

All those who'd like to use a cargo e-bike but are unable to because they can't have enough power for the intended weight, thanks to people who think like you.

Youngsters who can't ride a pedelec because they are under 14, thanks to people who think like you.

All those with a physical limitations so need a throttle to help them get under way on their pedelec. They had a throttle for 43 years of e-biking from 1972 on, but cannot have them since January 2015, thanks to people who think like you.

Andy, you and those who think like you are pests. You'll no doubt accuse me of being unfriendly as you usually do to all opposition, but I'm not being unfriendly. I'm being friendly to the vast majority by calling into question who the hell you think you are to know better than anyone else what is good for them. In other words, your offensive and tiresomely repetitive arrogant lecturing.
.

Have you nothing better to do than air your incorrectly and wrongly imagined grievances that you consider that I may have......

I have none of them, except that I do follow the laws, wherever I am, as being from a Scottish family, I do not want to waste my money on fines......

In the days of the German Democratic republic, DDR to the folks here, I was always hearing about grievances from colleagues, when driving to Berlin, of hidden radars, and the relatively heavy fines dished out (Western money!).

I had to drive on the transit autobahns many times a month, but I never got a ticket. I saw MANY Radar setups, but I simply set the Tempomat to 100KPH (the legal limit!), and I got through unscathed......funny that, it was only the guys with big mouths that consistently got caught and fined. Simply people like yourself apparently!

Which reminds me, you should get a proper hobby, as you're just an unwanted pest here! And there's me thinking it was just me!!!!

Do try to finally write something that people actually want to read for example. Not just attacking law abiding citizens in an unfriendly/rude manner, some here are starting to think that very little is holding your ears apart, if that what you NEED to write!

I myself believe its simply a huge air bubble.....

Andy

 

[flecc]

I had to drive on the transit autobahns many times a month, but I never got a ticket. I saw MANY Radar setups, but I simply set the Tempomat to 100KPH (the legal limit!), and I got through unscathed......

Typically dishonest reply when I clearly posted about the half of autobahn that are unlimited.

some here are starting to think that very little is holding your ears apart, if that what you NEED to write!

I myself believe its simply a huge air bubble.....

As a Mensa member, it must be a rather smart air bubble.

And as for what other members think of me and my posts, one of the threads I started holds the record of 36 approval icons for a single post starting it. Years later it's still receiving posts praising it's usefulness.
.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

They won't get anywhere here in Nanny State Britain with that. We were the only country in Europe refusing to allow their C1 enclosed and safety belted moped to be ridden without a helmet. All other countries in Europe and much of the rest of the world tweaked their laws to allow it.

It's a bit of a monstrosity and looking at the C1 wiki page it was as sales disaster so hardly worth bothering with and despite still needing a helmet a significant amount sold in the UK of an admittedly very low number. Something about a seat belt on a moped makes me uncomfortable when its a vehicle that requires balance. I don't think legislation should be pushed for by manufacturers it should be dictated by transport and safety policies.

BMW are just about the least reliable motorbike brand with very expensive repair costs and certainly not a manufacturer I would be looking at for a decent vehicle of this type which would likely be massively overpriced. If I wanted a high quality product of this type with good long term reliability I'd be looking at a Japanese brand to be honest or for a value option maybe one of the better Chinese manufacturers. As a country we have to stop importing this type of garbage.

 

[flecc]

It's a bit of a monstrosity and looking at the C1 wiki page it was as sales disaster so hardly worth bothering with and despite still needing a helmet a significant amount sold in the UK of an admittedly very low number. Something about a seat belt on a moped makes me uncomfortable when its a vehicle that requires balance. I don't think legislation should be pushed for by manufacturers it should be dictated by transport and safety policies.

BMW are just about the least reliable motorbike brand with very expensive repair costs and certainly not a manufacturer I would be looking at for a decent vehicle of this type which would likely be massively overpriced. If I wanted a high quality product of this type with good long term reliability I'd be looking at a Japanese brand to be honest or for a value option maybe one of the better Chinese manufacturers. As a country we have to stop importing this type of garbage.

As an ex motorcyucle mechanic I agree on BMW motorcycles and would never buy one myself, preferring the best from Japan.

But my post wasn't about motorcycles, it was about unnecessary and inappropriate safety law. Nor was I recommending the BMW C1. But I do recognise it was a brave attempt to do something about the shocking level of motorcycle deaths, where 1% of road users contribute 19% of our road accident deaths. Commercially it didn't work but it certainly did provide greatly improved protection for its riders, even when helmetless. See of you can find a single head injury death or head injury among its 12,000 buyers globally.

And BMW haven't given up on trying to improve two wheeler safety:

"Now the firm could be working to bring the same concept back and have filed at least 15 new patent applications showing every aspect of a new, battery-powered C1 successor based on the chassis of the C Evolution scooter.

Like its predecessor, the aim is to provide car-like levels of safety on two wheels, but in a break from the past BMW’s new design offers customers the option of removing the entire safety cell – creating a dual-purpose machine that can be a fun, open-air motorcycle at weekends and a car-like commuter during the week.

BMW’s latest patent applications come more than a year after a first, tentative indication of the plan in an initial patent document showing the removable roof layout, indicating that this is a serious, ongoing project which inevitably uses a host of innovative technologies to achieve its goal of combining car-like safety with the traffic-busting practicality of a bike."

Reborn electric BMW C1 gets airbags, safety cell, active aeros and can be ridden as a normal bike

BMW could be about to reintroduce a C1 for the modern age, with a new scooter complete with removable roof.

www.motorcyclenews.com

.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Typically dishonest reply when I clearly posted about the half of autobahn that are unlimited.

As a Mensa member, it must be a rather smart air bubble.

And as for what other members think of me and my posts, one of the threads I started holds the record of 36 approval icons for a single post starting it. Years later it's still receiving posts praising it's usefulness.
.

Really, Mensa let you in? I am surprised......Just the dusting maybe?

You are demonstrating a complete lack of simple even basic knowledge, in spite of it being correctly explained, (for anyone with even just a very basic understanding) of the changes in Germany in the 41 years I have lived here for example....:-

I said it was on the TRANSIT autobahn to BERLIN, in the GDR/DDR time, not today!!!!

It was in EAST Germany.....Max speed allowed was 100KPH.

Today its not called EAST or WEST, its just Germany.....

Even the unlimited Autobahns are getting fewer , or better said, "less of" today than they were in WEST Germany 40 odd years ago, I have no idea what the "balance" is, as Autobahns get limits on speed, just in the areas where speed is considered dangerous and accidents have happened!

The TRANSIT Autobahns were done away with when East and WEST became one in 1989, the name changed to simply Autobahn and a number!

What a short attention span some people have, even with all the needed information!!

Does nobody read good Newspapers anymore......

DUUHHH!

 

[flecc]

I said it was on the TRANSIT autobahn to BERLIN, in the GDR/DDR time, not today!!!!

But I didn't say that Andy, and you were answering my post, not that future post of your own. I very clearly only commented on unrestricted autobahn in the country you live in today, indeed that was the whole point of my mentioning them.

DUUHHH!
.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

As an ex motorcyucle mechanic I agree on BMW motorcycles and would never buy one myself, preferring the best from Japan.

But my post wasn't about motorcycles, it was about unnecessary and inappropriate safety law. Nor was I recommending the BMW C1. But I do recognise it was a brave attempt to do something about the shocking level of motorcycle deaths, where 1% of road users contribute 19% of our road accident deaths. Commercially it didn't work but it certainly did provide greatly improved protection for its riders, even when helmetless. See of you can find a single head injury death or head injury among its 12,000 buyers globally.

And BMW haven't given up on trying to improve two wheeler safety:

"Now the firm could be working to bring the same concept back and have filed at least 15 new patent applications showing every aspect of a new, battery-powered C1 successor based on the chassis of the C Evolution scooter.

Like its predecessor, the aim is to provide car-like levels of safety on two wheels, but in a break from the past BMW’s new design offers customers the option of removing the entire safety cell – creating a dual-purpose machine that can be a fun, open-air motorcycle at weekends and a car-like commuter during the week.

BMW’s latest patent applications come more than a year after a first, tentative indication of the plan in an initial patent document showing the removable roof layout, indicating that this is a serious, ongoing project which inevitably uses a host of innovative technologies to achieve its goal of combining car-like safety with the traffic-busting practicality of a bike."

Reborn electric BMW C1 gets airbags, safety cell, active aeros and can be ridden as a normal bike

BMW could be about to reintroduce a C1 for the modern age, with a new scooter complete with removable roof.

www.motorcyclenews.com

.

12,000 globally is not a lot for a product and seemed to have a production run of less than 2 years. I've never seen one on the road and so could be seen more as a novelty product typically. I could be wrong but I don't think the C1 would actually improve safety, there will be slightly reduced visibility. However its a mute point as statistically the numbers are too low to be useful. The fact the person is secured by a belt but the body of the vehicle provides no real protection in an impact is to my mind not necessarily good. If the vehicle was impacted by a HGV and damaged I would try to get out of the vehicle rather than have the HGV roll over me while I'm securely belted in. The best way of making 2 wheel vehicles safer in my opinion is to separate them as much as possible from idiots going around with 2 tons of steel wrapped around them so I would say dedicated cycle ways for bikes and low power 2 wheel electrical vehicles is where we should focus. Making those 2 wheel vehicles as light as possible will mean huge energy efficiency. Making larger vehicles more expensive and more restrictive like they do in the Netherlands is where we need to go. Perhaps there will come a time when conventional cars can only park in park and ride car parks and have to come into towns and cities using other transport unless they actually live in that city or town is a way forward.

Motorbikes are really a extreme danger sport. I can't see how you can ever make them that safe but if you have a fully enclosed cabin made from strong materials you could be safer but its only really for motorbikes with decent size engines that would have the power to move such a strong body. As the energy density of batteries improve its certainly an option though. I don't think its possible with low capacity petrol engines or low power hub motors because the outer body ends up being flimsy with little impact protection. Better to move such bikes onto cycle paths etc and forget all about the low capacity 125-250cc class of motorbikes and similar e-motorbikes.

I think as the technology improves we can increase speeds of ebikes. I.e. when there are no other ebikes nearby perhaps max speed goes to 30 or even 40mph and reduces down to 20mph when other traffic is nearby. In certain straight sections of cycle paths with good visibility your speed limit goes up and for other areas you would always be restricted to 20mph.