Insurance problems

[Woosh]

A customer of ours would like to insure his Sirocco (he bought it a few weeks ago), but has had refusals from 3 companies on the basis that the motor exceeds 200watts.
Our insurers only deal with trade/companies so we can't put him on to them.
We can of course say that the bike conforms to European 15194 standards which allow a 250 watt and UK is part of Europe (well it was last time the last time I looked) but he says he doubts they will entertain it. He's very pleased with the bike but just (understandably) wants to insure it.
Has anyone else had similar problems and found a solution?

Hatti

 

[amigafan2003]

That's a new one - my insurers (sureterm) never asked me my motor wattage - just wanted evidence of it cost and a few photos.

But the cover doesn't include 3rd party liability, just accidental damage, fire and theft. Maybe that's his issue?

If he's concerned about 3rd party cover he'll probably find he's covered under his home insurance policy if the bike is EN compliant. If he wants a belt and braces approach then he could join the CTC or Britich Cycling as they include cover on some of thier subscription levels.

 

[103Alex1]

That's a new one - my insurers (sureterm) never asked me my motor wattage - just wanted evidence of it cost and a few photos.

But the cover doesn't include 3rd party liability, just accidental damage, fire and theft. Maybe that's his issue?

Do they do cycle insurance or did you get it insured as a motorbike ?

 

[amigafan2003]

Do they do cycle insurance or did you get it insured as a motorbike ?

It's just insured as a possession - the same way you'd insure an expensive laptop, peice of jewellery, mobile phone etc.

Whether it's a legal ebike or not doesn't come into it as I've not requested 3rd party cover.

It's similiar to when I was building the Westfield - it wasn't registered or taxed and hence illegal to use on the road (except in specific circumstances - i.e. driving it to an SVA test). All the time it was in the garage or at a workshop (inc being transported to or from) it was covered for accidental damage, fire and theft.

Incidently, they had no problems isnuring me fully comp when I drove it to the SVA center to be tested - it wasn't registered at that point. 200 mile round trip to Carlisle and didn't get stopped once by the rozzers despite no number plates or tax disc - even when I broke down in front of a police car at the petrol station (+12v feed to the coil loose).

 

[morphix]

A customer of ours would like to insure his Sirocco (he bought it a few weeks ago), but has had refusals from 3 companies on the basis that the motor exceeds 200watts.
Our insurers only deal with trade/companies so we can't put him on to them.
We can of course say that the bike conforms to European 15194 standards which allow a 250 watt and UK is part of Europe (well it was last time the last time I looked) but he says he doubts they will entertain it. He's very pleased with the bike but just (understandably) wants to insure it.
Has anyone else had similar problems and found a solution?

Hatti

Insurance can be a very tricky business where e-bikes are concerned.. but usually it's fairly straightforward if you have a branded bike from a known manufacturer without any aftermarket mods done to it.

What is your customer trying to insure against, just damage/theft, or some kind of liability and/or fully comprehensive-type cover that protects him against damaging the bike himself in an accident?

I don't see how the motor makes any difference to a straightforward third party damage/vandalism and theft cover. Most household insurance policies will cover an e-bike (treated as an ordinary bicycle for insurance purposes) and will cover the full replacement cost, regardless of the legal status of the motor and bikes power limits. My bike is covered on my Legal & General household policy.

I know some insurers get a bit twitchy as soon as you ask specifically about e-bike cover. It's best just to call it a bicycle and leave out the electric part. It only seems to confuse them and provokes the response "sorry we don't insure e-bikes, only bicycles". Check the policy though and small print, if it specifically excludes any pay-outs on e-bikes, and makes a clear distinction from ordinary bicycles, look elsewhere.

There are a couple of insurers who specialise in just e-bike insurance (their names escape me, but no doubt someone will know) but they're not cheap compared to household insurance with bicycle as a valuable item cover which is usually free anyway on the policy up to certain reasonable limits.

 

[funkylyn]

It's just insured as a possession - the same way you'd insure an expensive laptop, peice of jewellery, mobile phone etc.

Whether it's a legal ebike or not doesn't come into it as I've not requested 3rd party cover.
.

Exactly what I found.....absolutely no problem insuring my bike for a top value of £1500 on my house contents insurance along with my laptop, they didnt even ask for pictures and didnt charge any extra.

So suggest he tries his household insurance first Hatti.

BTW......got a date yet for your visit ?

We have got LOADS to catch up on......

Lynda

 

[flecc]

Hatti, best refer the insurer to the vehicle type approval legislation 2002/24/EC, informing them that it passed into UK law on 10th November, 2003. That specifies that a pedelec (e-bike) not exceeding 250 watts is ok as a bicycle. These extracts refer:

Chapter I, Heading and Article 1, sub-section 1(h)

This Directive does not apply to the following vehicles:

(h) cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling

Chapter III, Article 15, section 1:

Member States shall not prohibit the placing on the market, sale, entry into service or use of new vehicles complying with this Directive.

CHAPTER V, Article 20, section 3:

From 9 May 2003 Member States shall not prohibit the first entry into service of vehicles complying with this Directive.
.

 

[Woosh]

Thank you all

Very very helpful.
I'm going to suggest he reads your comments, I'm sure he will be able to do something now.

Lynda, I'm thinking weekend after next, probably Monday evening (25th) like before if that's OK.
Project Court Barton definitely needs progressing.
Hope you've got over all the germs by then, otherwise I'll wear a mask. But then again maybe a good old bottle of rose will do away with them once and for all.
Hatti

 

[GaRRy]

Hatti, best refer the insurer to the vehicle type approval legislation 2002/24/EC, informing them that it passed into UK law on 10th November, 2003. That specifies that a pedelec (e-bike) not exceeding 250 watts is ok as a bicycle. These extracts refer:

Chapter I, Heading and Article 1, sub-section 1(h)

This Directive does not apply to the following vehicles:

(h) cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling

Chapter III, Article 15, section 1:

Member States shall not prohibit the placing on the market, sale, entry into service or use of new vehicles complying with this Directive.

CHAPTER V, Article 20, section 3:

From 9 May 2003 Member States shall not prohibit the first entry into service of vehicles complying with this Directive.
.

Now im even more confused if as Chapter I, Heading and Article 1, sub-section 1(h) states the directive does not apply to ebikes then surely the other two parts dont either as a ebike does not comply with the directive ?

 

[flecc]

Now im even more confused if as Chapter I, Heading and Article 1, sub-section 1(h) states the directive does not apply to ebikes then surely the other two parts dont either as a ebike does not comply with the directive ?

Correct, but it also specifies anything which complies with being a pedelec.

It follows that something can comply while not being specifically controlled by that law. It does specifically state the legality necessary to be a pedelec, so by implication they are included within the classifications, if not the following construction and use rulings.

It's nice argument point for lawyers to play with, but clearly it's enough to say to an insurer that 250 watt pedelecs are broadly legal vehicles which are entitled to be on the roads.
.

 

[funkylyn]

Lynda, I'm thinking weekend after next, probably Monday evening (25th) like before if that's OK.
Project Court Barton definitely needs progressing.
Hope you've got over all the germs by then, otherwise I'll wear a mask. But then again maybe a good old bottle of rose will do away with them once and for all.
Hatti

That will be perfect Hatti and hopefully all my germs should have gone by then.

I HAVE STOPPED SMOKING.........this is my TENTH day and I have got used to talking on Skype without a fag, drinking a coffee without etc etc.......however Im glad to say the Rose' habit is here to stay

Looking forward to not only Project Court Barton but hearing all about your hols.......AND the latest bikes. So Woosh into Ilminster as soon as you can......

Lynda

 

[103Alex1]

Incidently, they had no problems insuring me fully comp when I drove it to the SVA center to be tested - it wasn't registered at that point. 200 mile round trip to Carlisle and didn't get stopped once by the rozzers despite no number plates or tax disc - even when I broke down in front of a police car at the petrol station (+12v feed to the coil loose).

.. it's definitely a case of wrong place at wrong time if you get grief for stuff from them.

If it's insured as a possession, is it only covered for theft from home / workshop ? Opportunistic theft when you're out with it would be tough luck I guess

 

[funkylyn]

.. it's definitely a case of wrong place at wrong time if you get grief for stuff from them.

If it's insured as a possession, is it only covered for theft from home / workshop ? Opportunistic theft when you're out with it would be tough luck I guess

Mine is definitely covered whilst I am out cycling too....well, obviously not whilst I am actually ON it lol, but I did check with them specifically about being covered for theft whilst out of the home.

I am also covered by my motorhome insurance whilst travelling across Europe, again without any extra charge...and again up to a maximum value of £1500 per individual item.

Lynda

 

[103Alex1]

I guess the Tonaro isn't classified as an unregistered LPM tho' ?

 

[funkylyn]

Wouldnt matter as they never asked lol

Lynda

 

[amigafan2003]

.. it's definitely a case of wrong place at wrong time if you get grief for stuff from them.

If it's insured as a possession, is it only covered for theft from home / workshop ? Opportunistic theft when you're out with it would be tough luck I guess

No - it's covered wherever it is - just like my mobile phone is.

They don't care that it's a bike or what I do with it. It's just a possession.

 

[103Alex1]

No - it's covered wherever it is - just like my mobile phone is.

They don't care that it's a bike or what I do with it. It's just a possession.

So is that an add-on to household insurance or a standalone insurance ?

 

[mountainsport]

A customer of ours would like to insure his Sirocco (he bought it a few weeks ago), but has had refusals from 3 companies on the basis that the motor exceeds 200watts.
Our insurers only deal with trade/companies so we can't put him on to them.
We can of course say that the bike conforms to European 15194 standards which allow a 250 watt and UK is part of Europe (well it was last time the last time I looked) but he says he doubts they will entertain it. He's very pleased with the bike but just (understandably) wants to insure it.
Has anyone else had similar problems and found a solution?

Hatti

Hi Hatti,

This is not the answer to your question,but i've been meaning to say that your bikes look very good "ESPECIALLY" for the prices that you are selling them for. I have never test ridden one before,but just by looking at them makes me feel that they are built very strong,sturdy and of high quality,again not forgetting the LOW price tags.

Mountainsport... DID YOU KNOW THAT WASABI IS GROWN IN GRAVEL AND NOT SOIL?

 

[Woosh]

Hi everyone and thank you for your feedback so far.

I thought I'd better do a bit more homework on this, so I googled up electric bike insurance.

Here are my findings:

4 companies appear initially to offer it: Butterworths, Swinton, MCE and Cycleguard.

The Butterworths telephone number was invalid, so no joy there.

MCE do not do electric bike insurance - only motorbikes - so no joy there either.

Swintons do third party, fire and theft and do not specify motor size. You can request public liability but each case would be quoted on an individual basis (needing details like rider's age, motoring convictions (?) etc).

Cycleguard were very helpful. They offer electric bike insurance with an option for public liability and also an option for AA type roadside service (useful if your bike gives up the ghost half way across the Pennines!). I went onto their website with a 'test' sample from me, putting the replacement value at £700 and ticking electric bike and public liability options. The quote was £67 pa. Roadside rescue service took it up to £81 pa. I think that's pretty good, and they don't specify motor size - they only require that the bike conforms to the statutory 15.5mph speed limit.

Their telephone number is 0844 826 2297.

If you DO do an online quote for yourself out of curiosity, however, be aware that they will call you - my guess is to try and secure your business. Still, well worth knowing about them.

Hatti

 

[amigafan2003]

So is that an add-on to household insurance or a standalone insurance ?

Standalone.

I have quite a few items insured as individual items - my computers (one insured away from the house as well as I use it for LAN gaming events), RC cars, mountain bike etc.

In all cases either my home insurance wouldn't cover them ofr a reasonable premium (home ins wouldn't cover the ebike at all as they didn't understand what it was - "what, you built a bike?") or the excess was silly.