Indicator / turn signal kit for 36v bike

[decotopian]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a turn signal or indicator kit that is available for 36V systems. I have a big cargo trike and when you have the dog, two kids and beach gear in the front and you are trying to keep power on, taking a hand off for traditional semaphore signalling is a limited option.

What i am looking for is a proper left and right turn signal set with front and rear turn signals and perhaps brake light and front lights included. Has anyone seen anything like this either locally or from asia? Anyone done a home brew kit?

I have an existing 36V system which I could cut into to deliver power etc and detect brake activity.

Cheers

Jeremy

 

[103Alex1]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a turn signal or indicator kit that is available for 36V systems. I have a big cargo trike and when you have the dog, two kids and beach gear in the front and you are trying to keep power on, taking a hand off for traditional semaphore signalling is a limited option.

What i am looking for is a proper left and right turn signal set with front and rear turn signals and perhaps brake light and front lights included. Has anyone seen anything like this either locally or from asia? Anyone done a home brew kit?

I have an existing 36V system which I could cut into to deliver power etc and detect brake activity.

Cheers

Jeremy

I looked into this a bit and seems to be possible to cobble one together from a pair of bar end indicators for front like these :

BOM/INDICATOR CUSTOM BULLSEYE WITH CLEAR LENS KIT 22MM | eBay

Plus a tail unit with brake light :

LED Bicycle Bike Cycle Tail Stop Light Red Amber Lamp & Turn Signal Indicator | eBay

You'd still need standard front & rear lights wired in separately but I reckon all could be controlled from a decent motorbike handlebar switch if you wanted that. You can tap your 36V supply and fit a DC-DC converted to step voltage down to 12V in order to supply the power feed.

I've rigged up switch which does all my front/rear lights and a horn but it was pieced together rather than a standard kit. A slightly more elaborate handlebar switch could easily have taken in indicators but my wiring's probably complex enough already ... and when I looked at it ended up concluding that indicators would likely make the bike look too much like a moped !

 

[Marctwo]

Bicycle lights are pants! Even the 36V ebike ones. Indicator systems for cycles seem to focus on looking like a nice, compact unit rather than giving clear indications of the cyclists intentions.

My advice is get a 12V converter and motorbike lights. A bit more work involved but they'll do the job properly.

And while we're (nearly) on the subject, cycle mirrors are pants too. Get motorbike ones.

 

[TwoBikes]

Those bar end indicators shine front and back, so in theory you don't need another set of indicators at the rear. I bought one of these by mistake (I intended to buy two!) and haven't done anything more yet.

Regarding motorcycle handlebar switchgear, you have to make sure you've got enough room on your handlebars for this and your brake lever mounts, etc. I found that I didn't have enough room for such a unit. I have used one of these though:

Electric Scooter Handlebar Switches - ElectricScooterParts.com

 

[john h]

had the led bicycle tail stop light on a bike a few years back, rubbish more trouble than anything,brake works by attachment to cable kept slipping off water gets in wont work .

 

[103Alex1]

My advice is get a 12V converter and motorbike lights. A bit more work involved but they'll do the job properly.

And while we're (nearly) on the subject, cycle mirrors are pants too. Get motorbike ones.

I've got 8.4V CREE lights (can plug in a 3-CREE or a 1-CREE). These are high powered bike lights but do fine for anywhere urban / semi-urban. Together with a 36V bike light they do more than fine for anywhere with streetlights. An optional 27W headlight can be plugged in for out in the sticks only and can be killed from the handlebars. I run this at 24V to keep the amps drawn at the voltage converter down a bit. The headlight is probably better than regular HID motorbike lights.

Be interested in your motorbike light arrangement, Marktwo. Getting a good lighting array to actually work well took me more time and research than the bike build. Can you tell us a bit more about how you put it together and what you used ? Main constraint I found with most of the cheaper DC-DC converters below £15 is that they're only good up to 3A total, which is pretty low. Anything that could cope with more was too big and cumbersome to accommodate easily (not no mention a heck of a lot more money).

I ditched my mirrors. Take up too much space if mounted on the handlebars and bar end ones make your bike too wide when you ride past lines of cars backed up at lights.

 

[Marctwo]

@103Alex1: If I recall correctly, most of your effort with lighting was about finding front lights that gave a big spread for you to see by. My only requirement from a front light is to be seen so pretty much any of the ones mentioned in the various lighting threads would suit. I got one of the little black spot lights that run at multiple voltages. It seems to have the same brightness @12V as @36V which is good enough for my needs.

Finding a motorbike rear light without a number plate light cuts your choice down quite a bit. But they all do the job of being seen and have a brake light circuit. I use a reed switch on the rear brake cable for the brake light.

Most motor bike indicators need a blinker to make them flash. While reading up about them it seems a lot of people think that relays should be used too but I don't see the need myself... I'll let you know if something goes bang. You can buy special mounts for indicators that would fit various parts of your frame/forks but it's simple enough to bend and drill a bit of ally. The thing about motorbike indicators is they stand away from your front/rear lights in a way that other road users know exactly what they are without having to think about it.

Without the super bright front light extravaganza, these light won't take much current at all and will run comfortablly on 3A.

As well as a few of the 3A DC converters that you're familiar with, I got one similar to this:
New 120W GOLF CART Voltage Reducer Converter Regulator 36V To 12V 10A | eBay
I have this wired up seperately for my horn at the moment which uses more power than all the lights combined. The lights are wired to one of the 3A boards along with some other gubbins.

I have a multi-switch similar to the one linked to earlier with lights, indicators and horn buttons.

The electrics are hidden in a couple of wax coated cardboard postal tubes. Not great but I can't find the solution I have in mind...

 

[103Alex1]

^^ very interesting, thanks.

That's a good 10A DC-DC converter. If you can could you please measure the max dimensions and post up ? Always useful to know . Yes you're right my troubles 50:50 about seeing as well as being seen. Though the high beam headlight was as much to alert drivers to my presence before being seen on winding single track roads. People only slow down and pull into passing places when they see the throw of car headlights above the hedgerows at night - you're often metres from each other before you see the other vehicle. So a killable headlight simulates the effect to get the same result. Running variable input / constant output lights at lower voltages = more current at the DC-DC converter. So decided to run mine at as high a voltage as I can to run as cool as I can.

My horn is 36V, fortunately, and runs on a separate circuit within the switch housing so it was actually the easiest thing to accommodate and wire up out of everything ! No need for any voltage converters for that one.

Back to the the thread (!) .. which indicators and rear light did you pick in the end ?

The proper waterproofing of stuff can be a right pain. It's one real benefit of a triangle box - hides a multitude of sins ! Having experimented in vain with various things and seen what Kalkhoff did with their connectors under the battery mount I've ditched the idea of trying to waterproof holes. Am just going to feed cabling through some plastic bags and then use these to plug the holes they've fed through on the underside.... and shove connectors into a bag and whap a ziptie round the neck. Much easier all round and likely just as effective as anything else !

 

[Marctwo]

That's a good 10A DC-DC converter. If you can could you please measure the max dimensions and post up ?

Mine is about 80x80x30mm. Mine also takes upto 48V input.

Running variable input / constant output lights at lower voltages = more current at the DC-DC converter. So decided to run mine at as high a voltage as I can to run as cool as I can.

That may affect the input current but the output current will be the same and that's the side that will have the higher current. These converters are more efficient with less voltage drop so running at 12V will be more efficient. But you'll lose that efficiency when converting down to 12V anyway. But running at 12V means it's easy to have it on the same circuit as any other 12V lights.

Back to the the thread (!) .. which indicators and rear light did you pick in the end ?

Can't find a link for my rear light. The indicators are this type of thing:
2 PCS Universal 16 LED Motorcycle Motorbike Turn Signal Indicators light bulb | eBay
Many of the indicators and rear lights are coloured LEDs behing white lenses... I don't like that so I looked for lights with the appropriate lens colour: indicators=amber, rear light=red. It's intuitive and gives other road users less to think about when they see your lights come on.

 

[Chris the Sheep]

Disregarding the technicalities; what are the chances that most drivers will even care that you're indicating; plenty are quite happy to keep going when you've got your arm stuck out in front of them so I can't see a little flashing light making a difference.

The issue I see is that a motorcycle is always part of the traffic; drivers follow what's in front of them. Cyclists often have to negotiate their way into the traffic, especially when turning right. While you're on the left of the lane you're in their peripheral vision and, as far as many are concerned, nothing more than a minor obstacle to steer round.

Signalling for a cyclist is about more than sticking an arm out or flashing a light; it's about negotiation, eye contact, positioning. That's not how it should be, but many drivers are too incompetent / selfish / distracted for anything else to work. In a world where most bikes don't have indicators I just doubt whether it'll be worth the effort

 

[TwoBikes]

They do make a difference. I often follow an ebike with indicators (I don't have them myself) and have seen cars overtake me then slow down considerably when the indicators on that bike in front start flashing. Sometimes I've seen the occupants of the car point and laugh, but at least they took notice. I've even seen car drivers point out the indicators when they weren't flashing (at least, I think that's what they were pointing at), so I concur that they should be amber coloured even when off. On the other hand, it would be foolish to assume that car drivers will always see your indicators, especially in bright sunlight.

 

[Marctwo]

Whether or not drivers care that you indicate is not the point. The point is you are informing them of your intentions. I don't like sticking my right arm out half way round a roundabout. And I don't like sticking my left arm out when I'm slowing down to mount the pavement.

Of course, you can never assume that a driver will respect your intentions which is why I consider mirrors to be primary safety equipment.

 

[jackhandy]

Spot on, Chris.

Sad but true.

 

[Marctwo]

The issue I see is that a motorcycle is always part of the traffic; drivers follow what's in front of them. Cyclists often have to negotiate their way into the traffic, especially when turning right. While you're on the left of the lane you're in their peripheral vision and, as far as many are concerned, nothing more than a minor obstacle to steer round.

Sticking to the left of your lane tells those behind you that you are only a minor obstacle. If you do this when there are 2 lanes then cars will overtake you in pairs because that's the message you've sent.

Take a more central line in your lane and you suddenly start seeing indicators going on behind you.

 

[mountainsport]

Those bar end indicators shine front and back, so in theory you don't need another set of indicators at the rear. I bought one of these by mistake (I intended to buy two!) and haven't done anything more yet.

Regarding motorcycle handlebar switchgear, you have to make sure you've got enough room on your handlebars for this and your brake lever mounts, etc. I found that I didn't have enough room for such a unit. I have used one of these though:

Electric Scooter Handlebar Switches - ElectricScooterParts.com

Hi TwoBikes, how easy is it to wire up to an electric bike?

Mountainsport.

 

[103Alex1]

Take a more central line in your lane and you suddenly start seeing indicators going on behind you.

... along with the inevitable occasional 2 fingers and abuse shouted though white van passenger windows !

 

[Marctwo]

... along with the inevitable occasional 2 fingers and abuse shouted though white van passenger windows !

I think this fear of being seen to be cheeky may be why so many cyclist hog the gutter. But I've never had this... not once. But using mirrors, I'm always aware of the situation behind me and I'm always prepared to give way at an appropriate time.

When I say take a more central line, I don't mean plonk yourself in the middle of the road a stuff everyone behind you. But make drivers overtake you properly rather than just passing a bit of rubbish that fell into the gutter. I mean, why give motorists the whole road if you're just going to moan about them using it?

Either get on the road or get on the path - in the gutter you're nowhere.

 

[103Alex1]

I think this fear of being seen to be cheeky may be why so many cyclist hog the gutter. But I've never had this... not once. But using mirrors, I'm always aware of the situation behind me and I'm always prepared to give way at an appropriate time.

When I say take a more central line, I don't mean plonk yourself in the middle of the road a stuff everyone behind you. But make drivers overtake you properly rather than just passing a bit of rubbish that fell into the gutter. I mean, why give motorists the whole road if you're just going to moan about them using it?

Either get on the road or get on the path - in the gutter you're nowhere.

I agree entirely.... and the presence of stormwater grilles every few metres in cycle lanes makes it even more gutter-like there than on normal roads without the lanes ! I ride fully as part of the traffic flow but have had the abuse approaching junctions to turn right where vehicles don't want you in front of them and try to box you out from getting to the lights. Even when you're doing 15-20mph quite close to the lights. Admittedly those responses are rare but it does happen happen.

Not so sure how much value the mirrors added to be honest. I did use them for a while and still have a decent one fitted on the Kalkhoff on the right but it has to be bent down and in every time I put the bike away going through a narrow door. Repositioning it to be optimal is a faff and I can't be bothered with it now. Now if it was electrically adjustable with my thumb via a control toggle whilst riding I might be more tempted to use it. !

 

[Marctwo]

The thing is, these drivers that we so often refer to aren't exclusively cyclist haters, they hate anyone that doesn't facilitate them. They'll bully any vehicle or pedestrian into submition if they can. When it happens to us, we often say it's because we're cyclists. But what does a car driver say when it happens to them? "It's because I'm in a blue car and drivers don't like being stuck behind blue cars..."

When I had cycle mirrors fitted they were a waist of time. They're such a pain to adjust that half the time, as you say, you just can't be bothered. And if your mirrors aren't properly adjusted they're useless. Also, you need to develop the habit of using your mirrors so if your not using them all the time because they're not adjusted properly then you don't develop the habit and you don't 'magically' know what's going on behind you.

 

[TwoBikes]

Hi TwoBikes, how easy is it to wire up to an electric bike?

Mountainsport.

This is a bit difficult to answer, because an experienced auto-electrician would find it really easy, but a novice might find it really difficult.

Some things I've thought of regarding these bar end indicators:

- The wiring goes through the handlebars, so you have to have a hole somewhere in your handlebars for the wiring to come out of.

- You can get 24V bulbs (festoon type) for these, but if you're using 36V you'd probably be better off converting down to 12V.

- You need a three-position switch (Left-Off-Right), and such switches for ebikes are a bit weedy. A motorcycle switch would be better, but these tend to have headlight and other switches on them as well and are quite wide units (typically 30mm).

- I guess you could use a weedy switch to operate an on-off-on relay (do such things exist?), which could in turn operate the flasher unit.

- You can get 24V flasher units, as well as the more usual 12V ones.