If you voted IN then here's a second chance for common sense

[Kudoscycles]

I beg your pardon! This referendum was a manifesto pledge at the last general election. Cameron pledged to negotiate a new EU deal and put that to the people to decide. He did and we have.

I do not recall anyone ever saying in the run up to the vote that it was just an advisory exercise, it's not for real. Do you? I suspect not.

As for it was virtually half and half, it was close, but there was a winner and that winner was out. What's your definition of a majority vote because clearly 52 - 48 doesn't cut it in your world. Is your idea of fairness a process which delivers only what you want regardless of how many people have expressed a desire for something different.

If we start off down a route of ignoring a democratic decision, it's a dangerous path. This would have been unthinkable 7 days ago. We have attacked and bombed countries in order to restore democracy in the past and now we have people openly calling for democracy to be overruled. If this vote is ignored it will be the thin edge of the wedge. It will be easier to disregard the next topic we vote on in the future.

However painful, we must respect the outcome of the referendum and parliament must enact it.

Till son,I agree,I didn't know that the referendum had no legal power,I suspect that very few people knew that,I suspect that even Cameron didn't know or maybe didn't care.
I have only learnt that the referendum was only advisory after the vote.
I told some of my employees who voted leave that it was only advisory,they all said they wouldn't have bothered to vote if they had known.
I think the papers will be full of the legal wranglings this coming week.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Parliament cannot vote for Article 50 without first repealing the 1972 European Communities Act,the act that took us into the EU in the first place.
Parliament is sovereign,an Act of Parliament can only be repealed by another Act of Parliament ,that can only be exercised by Parliament.
The PM cannot take us out,the cabinet cannot take us out and the Queens prerogative cannot take us out and there are 450 reasons why parliament will not repeal the 1972 ECA act.
I can see no mechanism that we will leave the EU.
If I was a Brexiter I would feel conned that none of this was explained prior to the referendum,as well as my champions,Gove,Boris and Farage have all jumped ship.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

Dave,

I'm surprised to the point of finding it hard to believe you didn't know the referendum decision was only advisory.

As a remainer, you seem to be clinging to the notion leaving will not be carried through.

It's a forlorn hope.

The politicians have been reminded the electorate is independently minded will not be patronised.

While it looks like luke warm remainer May will be our next prime minister, any fudge deal to stay in would be electoral suicide in 2020.

Staying in power for a politician trumps anything else, so she isn't going to risk another slap in the chops from the electorate.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Staying in power for a politician trumps anything else, so she isn't going to risk another slap in the chops from the electorate.

Yes but only 38% of the electrote voted leave... and if my random sample of leave voters up here are anything like the national picture... 25% of them are now realising they made a mistake, and 100% of the people I know who didn't vote wished they had.

So maybe you'll find that all MPs will go back to their constituencies and discover that maybe things aren't over.

Also, if they do invoke the article 50, considering the under 50s, Scotland, NI and pretty much every major city voted to stay, by the time it comes to 2020 election they might be being forced to invoke article 49!

 

[RobF]

Yes but only 38% of the electrote voted leave... and if my random sample of leave voters up here are anything like the national picture... 25% of them are now realising they made a mistake, and 100% of the people I know who didn't vote wished they had.

So maybe you'll find that all MPs will go back to their constituencies and discover that maybe things aren't over.

Also, if they do invoke the article 50, considering the under 50s, Scotland, NI and pretty much every major city voted to stay, by the time it comes to 2020 election they might be being forced to invoke article 49!

The percentages are more irrelevant now than they were before, if that's possible.

Preparations to leave are already being made, and we are already a dead man walking in Europe, having relinquished key posts and withdrawn key personnel.

For good or ill, it's over.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dave,

I'm surprised to the point of finding it hard to believe you didn't know the referendum decision was only advisory.

As a remainer, you seem to be clinging to the notion leaving will not be carried through.

It's a forlorn hope.

The politicians have been reminded the electorate is independently minded will not be patronised.

While it looks like luke warm remainer May will be our next prime minister, any fudge deal to stay in would be electoral suicide in 2020.

Staying in power for a politician trumps anything else, so she isn't going to risk another slap in the chops from the electorate.

Almost everyone I know didn't know that the referendum had no legal power,I suspect that few know now,except those who read forums such as this and have been advised.
It has made me investigate the 1972 European Communities Act and its implications.
Was any of this told to us before the vote?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Whichever way is the outcome and we all have our viewpoint of the power of the referendum.
17 million wanted to leave,I can see many of them being disappointed as to how it affect lifestyle,jobs,immigration,democracy. 16 million wanted to stay,I can see them being disappointed that we ever started this experiment.
Unless Theresa May pulls a remarkable rabbit out of the hat I can see massive political disturbance in the UK and not from the left or right but from middle England.
Any parliament who triggers Article 50 will be committing political suicide.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

Are you seriously trying to suggest people would have voted differently had they known the vote was only advisory?

"I think we should stay in, but as it's only advisory I'm going to vote out for a laugh."

 

[Kudoscycles]

Are you seriously trying to suggest people would have voted differently had they known the vote was only advisory?

"I think we should stay in, but as it's only advisory I'm going to vote out for a laugh."

It's difficult to say,but I do think many would have not bothered to vote at all.
Many of my friends only voted anti immigration, they are going to be very fed up if the result does not allow us to restrict immigration. I actually think EE immigration a good thing but would like to restrict from the rest of the world,we should be able to achieve the latter already.
Many I have spoken to have said they would change their vote now that they are better informed and are also fed up with Boris and Gove lies about what is achievable.
I don't favour a second referendum ,I think we need a General Election as soon as possible with a new manifesto.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

I suspect the anti-immigration vote may have been over estimated, not least because, like you, I think the major immigration concern relates to immigrants from outside the EU.

Having said that, a common sense view would be that leaving the EU is a reasonable first step to give us greater control over our borders.

Those wanting to change their vote may well have had a light bulb moment post-referendum, but it is more likely they have been swayed by the avalanche of discontent publicity from the remainers.

Particularly as that's been in sharp contrast to the relative silence from the leave campaign.

As regards a general election, there is a problem with that because there cannot be one until 2020.

While no one expects an instant exit, fudging leaving the EU for four years looks too big an ask to me.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Saw some figures yesterday about increase in usage of social media...put down to malcontent remainees. Suppose whilst they are ranting on here they aren't smashing windows at mothercare or in their care homes.

 

[oldgroaner]

Saw some figures yesterday about increase in usage of social media...put down to malcontent remainees. Suppose whilst they are ranting on here they aren't smashing windows at mothercare or in their care homes.

Which prompts me to ask
How many windows have you had bricks through so far Flud?

 

[oldgroaner]

I suspect the anti-immigration vote may have been over estimated, not least because, like you, I think the major immigration concern relates to immigrants from outside the EU.

Having said that, a common sense view would be that leaving the EU is a reasonable first step to give us greater control over our borders.

Those wanting to change their vote may well have had a light bulb moment post-referendum, but it is more likely they have been swayed by the avalanche of discontent publicity from the remainers.

Particularly as that's been in sharp contrast to the relative silence from the leave campaign.

As regards a general election, there is a problem with that because there cannot be one until 2020.

While no one expects an instant exit, fudging leaving the EU for four years looks too big an ask to me.

And just how do you imagine we are going to exercise more control over our borders?
Buy another Patrol Boat to add to the present three?
To put it in perspective to cover the UK coastline the RNLI has a fleet of 340 boats, 4.600 crew and 3000 on shore volunteers.
And at the moment the Government cuts mean we have a mere handful of Coastguards and watching the coasts is being carried out by volunteers from the Coastwatch Charity on a Daylight hours basis.
When will you Brexiteers begin to face the truth?

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Which prompts me to ask
How many windows have you had bricks through so far Flud?

You need to get to Specsavers OG...read the post..

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I suspect the anti-immigration vote may have been over estimated, not least because, like you, I think the major immigration concern relates to immigrants from outside the EU.

I wish that was true... I'm afraid its not. Most people I know who voted leave privately say its to do with immigration.

One even told me yesterday its because she thinks "we're forced to open our doors to too many Syrian's who come he to claim benefits."

The fact that we're exempt from the EU rules on the number of refugees we're required to take was lost on her.

She has an opinion, and no amount of fact or logic will steer her to understanding that leaving the EU will no solve her issue. The fact that her issue doesn't even exist is also lost on her.

She is one of many many people that I know who has had their opinion shaped with no basis on fact, and she voted accordingly.

 

[derf]

I wish that was true... I'm afraid its not. Most people I know who voted leave privately say its to do with immigration.

One even told me yesterday its because she thinks "we're forced to open our doors to too many Syrian's who come he to claim benefits."

The fact that we're exempt from the EU rules on the number of refugees we're required to take was lost on her.

She has an opinion, and no amount of fact or logic will steer her to understanding that leaving the EU will no solve her issue. The fact that her issue doesn't even exist is also lost on her.

She is one of many many people that I know who has had their opinion shaped with no basis on fact, and she voted accordingly.

I suspect the anti-immigration vote may have been over estimated, not least because, like you, I think the major immigration concern relates to immigrants from outside the EU.

Having said that, a common sense view would be that leaving the EU is a reasonable first step to give us greater control over our borders.

Those wanting to change their vote may well have had a light bulb moment post-referendum, but it is more likely they have been swayed by the avalanche of discontent publicity from the remainers.

Particularly as that's been in sharp contrast to the relative silence from the leave campaign.

As regards a general election, there is a problem with that because there cannot be one until 2020.

While no one expects an instant exit, fudging leaving the EU for four years looks too big an ask to me.

as an immigrant, the whole way leave became about immigration makes me despair of teh average uk voter who voted leave. i dont think its physically possible to patronise a leave voter. eitehr they do not ahve teh capacituy to recognsie that facts show immigrants are a net contributuion to the uk. or they are the kind of congenital idiots who enjoy blaming immigranst for their own failure in life. eitehr way its pretty despairing. but it is also a realistci reflection on teh uk, its culture and values - much more than anything else. it's not at all an open, liberal community, quite the contrary. in that sense it deserves what's ahead of it.

 

[oldgroaner]

You need to get to Specsavers OG...read the post..

Not me Flud, but then I shouldn't have expected a Brexit Fan to recognise himself when making insults should I?

 

[oldgroaner]

as an immigrant, the whole way leave became about immigration makes me despair of teh average uk voter who voted leave. i dont think its physically possible to patronise a leave voter. eitehr they do not ahve teh capacituy to recognsie that facts show immigrants are a net contributuion to the uk. or they are the kind of congenital idiots who enjoy blaming immigranst for their own failure in life. eitehr way its pretty despairing. but it is also a realistci reflection on teh uk, its culture and values - much more than anything else. it's not at all an open, liberal community, quite the contrary. in that sense it deserves what's ahead of it.

Don't you mean 38% deserve that?

 

[derf]

Don't you mean 38% deserve that?

yes, but its too bad they've taken control of the cockpit an locked the door, so to speak

 

[oldgroaner]

yes, but its too bad they've taken control of the cockpit an locked the door, so to speak

Agreed!