If you voted IN then here's a second chance for common sense

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The Oxford dictionary definition of a referendum is as follows:

A general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Having to witness you wriggling, squirming and focussing on all the negative aspects would be funny were it not so pathetic. It reminds me of a child playing a board game who is trying to make up new rules when they are losing.

Why can't you accept that a referendum (see definition above again) was held last week and the direct decision taken by the people of this country is that we are leaving the EU?

That is the definition, I'm not arguing with that. But no where in that definition does it say that its legally binding does it, because they are not.

They are not legally binding, because in the UK Parliament holds the sovereign power doesn't it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

"Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results"

Why should I accept it? We live in a democracy, so just like UKIP got to campaing to leave for x years, so there will be people (me included) who'll campaign to join, and that campaign started on Friday and will be a whole lot easier if we can ensure Brexit doesn't happen, rather than simply wait until the next General Election to get back in on a worse deal then we have currently.

 

[SteveRuss]

Well as normal stayers arguments revolve around insulting stayers motives and reasoning behind their decisions.
To be honest I,m a bit sick of it,( not just from you)
You have not got a clue process I went through or my reasoning behind voting leave. Its exactly why both tho thread and the whole process has been so confrontational. I,ve been called a racist, had it implied on here, which if you met me you,d know is completely ridiculous.
Your reasoning, as mentioned earlier, degrades not just leavers but also opinions of all folk listed in earlier post,.


Assuming 52% of voters are reactionary and gullible is derisory at best. I suspect you could be correct for some sections of both sides of argument but to assume for all one side is also bigoted. You are missing the point.. Hargreaves Lansdown are the biggest UK Stock Broker and stand or fall on succes of uk economy. They handle billions and billions..Their owner is a leave voter ! By your argument he,s gullible but presumably you are not.
Sorry but your stand point is pathetic.

For starters. I never directed an accusation of racism at anyone here. If I have then i'm open for that mistake to be pointed out to me. I think I merely pointed out that it was offered as one of the incentives by the leave campaign and subsequently brought out the worst in some voters, in my opinion.

I think to say that 52% of the British people are gullible could be taken as a compliment. I think the figure is probably much higher than that from my experience so if anything. it's a good turn out for the healithier of mind

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

For starters. I never directed an accusation of racism at anyone here. If I have then i'm open for that mistake to be pointed out to me. I think I merely pointed out that it was offered as one of the incentives by the leave campaign and subsequently brought out the worst in some voters, in my opinion.

I think to say that 52% of the British people are gullible could be taken as compliment. I think the figure is probably much higher than that from my experience so if anything. it's a good turn out for the healthy minded

Well that says more about you and your respect for people than it does about voters.
Edited. Shouldn't have said that.Apologies if you got it.

 

[SteveRuss]

The Oxford dictionary definition of a referendum is as follows:

A general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Having to witness you wriggling, squirming and focussing on all the negative aspects would be funny were it not so pathetic. It reminds me of a child playing a board game who is trying to make up new rules when they are losing.

Why can't you accept that a referendum (see definition above again) was held last week and the direct decision taken by the people of this country is that we are leaving the EU?

It just isn't as simple as that. This referendum was an advisory exercise and not a decree forced upon them by the general populous.

As far as "Direct Decision Taken By the People" comment. Man, it was virtually half and half. Anyone under 18 was not allowed a vote. 16 year olds that could legally marry, were not allowed to vote on their own future. The reason? It would be too expensive to implement.

Add to that the fact that the gutter press will reinforce any.contemporary prejudice and pass on any video they have taken of the Boris bus with "We Send the EU £350,000 week. Let's fund our NHS instead" and ignore informative interviews with economic and social contributors. All of it a distortion of the truth. An argument supported by the Brexit campaign trying to separate themselves from that comment/commitment.

The whole referendum is built on the top of a circus campaign and to embrace its ridiculous result is at least dangerous..

 

[SteveRuss]

Well that says more about you and your respect for people than it does about voters.
Edited. Shouldn't have said that.Apologies if you got it.

I can only reflect on the people I meet. Most of them (and sometimes myself) are gullible.

 

[tillson]

It just isn't as simple as that. This referendum was an advisory exercise and not a decree forced upon them by the general populous.

As far as "Direct Decision Taken By the People" comment. Man, it was virtually half and half..

I beg your pardon! This referendum was a manifesto pledge at the last general election. Cameron pledged to negotiate a new EU deal and put that to the people to decide. He did and we have.

I do not recall anyone ever saying in the run up to the vote that it was just an advisory exercise, it's not for real. Do you? I suspect not.

As for it was virtually half and half, it was close, but there was a winner and that winner was out. What's your definition of a majority vote because clearly 52 - 48 doesn't cut it in your world. Is your idea of fairness a process which delivers only what you want regardless of how many people have expressed a desire for something different.

If we start off down a route of ignoring a democratic decision, it's a dangerous path. This would have been unthinkable 7 days ago. We have attacked and bombed countries in order to restore democracy in the past and now we have people openly calling for democracy to be overruled. If this vote is ignored it will be the thin edge of the wedge. It will be easier to disregard the next topic we vote on in the future.

However painful, we must respect the outcome of the referendum and parliament must enact it.

 

[trex]

4,007,922 signatures so far.

You can't dismiss the 48% any more than you can dismiss the 52%.
the choice of brexit model will reflect the small margin of the referendum.
I hope that in the next 3 months, the landscape will become clear enough to show that the brexit model cannot satisfactorily meet the expectations of people who voted out.
If there is no way parliament can be confident that its projected relationship with the EU will satisfy the majority of the people, then we need fresh general election or a second referendum to come to a definitive decision.
This time, the result may go for remain if parliament goes for second referendum or brexit if general election.

 

[KeithMac]

You can't just re-run a general election so why should you think it's ok to re-run a referendum?.

I can't see how so many people are trying to null this result, it should stand as it was voted for by the majority..

 

[Nealh]

So called Democracy, if people don't like the result petition to have another vote until it suits their needs !!!. Might as well not have had a vote in the first place.

 

[tillson]

4,007,922 signatures so far.

You can't dismiss the 48% any more than you can dismiss the 52%.
the choice of brexit model will reflect the small margin of the referendum.
I hope that in the next 3 months, the landscape will become clear enough to show that the brexit model cannot satisfactorily meet the expectations of people who voted out.
If there is no way parliament can be confident that its projected relationship with the EU will satisfy the majority of the people, then we need fresh general election or a second referendum to come to a definitive decision.
This time, the result may go for remain if parliament goes for second referendum or brexit if general election.

Still 13 million short.

If you can't dismiss 48%, how many are you prepared to dismiss? 47%? 46%? 45%? What's your cut off figure?

What if we have another referendum and this time its 49% leave and 51% stay? Would that result suddenly become democratic enough to suit you?

Please, give us the numbers, not speculation.

 

[mike killay]

England and Wales together was 45/55

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Parliament is the only ones who can make this call, you can argue you about it all you want, but that's the facts of the situation.

 

[tillson]

Parliament is the only ones who can make this call, you can argue you about it all you want, but that's the facts of the situation.

And of course you would be saying this if the vote was to remain.

I'm interested to know your view on the following. Given that the referendum was a manifesto pledge, the "spirit" of the vote was that the result would be acted upon. There has never been any suggestion of ignoring it until the result became known last week.

I know you are very quick to cry foul when 50 Cycles sell S Peddles and protest all over the pages of this forum. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that you have also reported them to Trading Standards? Allow me to develop the point here: 50 Cycles can legally sell S pedelecs. You say the government can legally overturn a referendum and you may very well be correct. Similar principles apply here, even though it is legal to S pedelecs, you protest on moral grounds, arguing that its not within the spirit of the law and should be stopped. Yet you seem to argue that the government should overturn a referendum even though the spirit of the vote was such that it would be acted upon.

Do you think it is acceptable for a government to disregard the result of an official referendum. Forget what they can technically do, depending on how you interpret the law. Is it morally acceptable to you?

Instead of reporting 50 Cycles to Trading Standards, I think someone should report you to Double Standards.

 

[damian]

Interestingly only 36.8% voted conservative at the election, so they might feel that the pledge had been broken.
Even if you add in ukip it's still 49.5%

Does anyone know the constituency by constituency breakdown of the vote? What if MPs voted in parliament according to how their constituents wanted them to?

Interestingly autocorrect changed parliament to puzzlement...

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[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I hope remainers can see the irony in this.
Merkel has recently said the referendum must be obeyed.. !!!
Sort of justified the out campaign ?
Hoist by ones own petard perhaps.

By the way Steve, having now seen your beliefs do you not think your thread title is also somewhat ironic. Your title suggests in voters to rethink? A Freudian slip perhaps. ( but that now means something rather different?)
I think you meant "out". A lot have got in and out confused recently ?? Or perhaps I have?

 

[the_killjoy]

Once we have initiated article 50 it doesn't matter what parliament votes about the acceptance of the terms, as far as the EU are concerned we will have crossed the Rubicon and there can be no turning back.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Once we have initiated article 50 it doesn't matter what parliament votes about the acceptance of the terms, as far as the EU are concerned we will have crossed the Rubicon and there can be no turning back.

well apart from Article 49.

 

[trex]

If you don't like your MP, you vote for another one next time.
the essence of democracy is that voters can change their mind.
If three months from now, a poll finds that the chosen brexit model does not satisfy brexiters and remainers, then a second referendum is very possible, even logical.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you don't like your MP, you vote for another one next time.
the essence of democracy is that voters can change their mind.
If three months from now, a poll finds that the chosen brexit model does not satisfy brexiters and remainers, then a second referendum is very possible, even logical.

And since there is no backing out once article 50 is invoked remind me what the point would be of having a referendum then?

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[Kudoscycles]

Surely they'd never renege on an election pledge?

The election pledge was to have an IN OUT referendum....we have had that,there is no pledge that parliament should act upon the decision!
KudosDvae