I want to build a power-assisted rickshaw bike and SELL MY CAR! Advice, anyone?

[mechaniker]

I have a picture of a cyclone double freewheel motor - this is what you are talking about, right? ( I use cyclone only as an example - my aim is to be efficient, reliable and affordable - asking too much?

yes,we talk about this kind of motors but, i will never reconmend cyclone motors because to noise, to sensitive for heat because the controller is inside, to low torque and and and..... i have selled a lot of this motors and everybody complain about the noise and heat problems

This is the reason why i make now my own crankdrive motors, after i was on china-cycle in shanghai and every big player told me we have no intrest in this motors i thought "ok, i´m a mechanic, so do it by myself"

There is also an other crankdrive motor if you can welding steel, it is maybe also something for you check the photo
this is a real crankdrive motor from china

regards
frank

 

[jbond]

I've done a lot of daydreaming about hub motors, centrally mounted in a bicycles that have a long chain run such as 'Bents, trikes and rickshaws. The neatest solution seem to me to be the cyclone layout with two sprockets on a rear drive hub. If you follow the drive train from rear wheel, you have
- Rear derailleur
- Fixed sprocket on the hub motor
- Free wheel sprocket on the hub motor
- Triple chainring cranks

There's a series of challenges with this.
- Not enough thread width on the hub to take two sprockets
- The hub thread direction means the fixed sprocket will tend to unwind
- Small hub motors often have a spin on cover on the gear side. This will tend to unwind
- The internal freewheel may be in the wrong direction. (I can't work this one out!)

I think all these problems can be dealt with, The appeal is:-
- Enough freewheels so you can pedal, motor or both
- Using sprockets on the hub that have a slightly larger number of teeth than the smallest on the rear wheel means a 7 speed gives you roughly 2:1 range, a slightly higher top speed than a hub motor in 7th and more torque in 1st
- There's no messing around with a freewheel in the chainrings. Something that's potentially dangerous and unreliable.
- The rider's need to set a gear to suit cadence, matches up well with the torque demands on the motor. It's going to be natural to slow down on the hills, shift down and hence give the motor more rear wheel torque.

Re the OP, you need an electric tuk-tuk!

 

[theskip1]

jbond
- The hub thread direction means the fixed sprocket will tend to unwind
- Small hub motors often have a spin on cover on the gear side. This will tend to unwind
- The internal freewheel may be in the wrong direction. (I can't work this one out!)

turn the hub to drive on the other side of the bike ?
you could fit a hub drive on two wheels and use both when on the steepest hills.

 

[jbond]

jbond
- The hub thread direction means the fixed sprocket will tend to unwind
- Small hub motors often have a spin on cover on the gear side. This will tend to unwind
- The internal freewheel may be in the wrong direction. (I can't work this one out!)

turn the hub to drive on the other side of the bike ?
you could fit a hub drive on two wheels and use both when on the steepest hills.

There may be an option here. Make up a bracket to bolt onto the disk side. Include enough thread to take both sprockets and a reverse threaded locknut. Work out and fix if the internal freewheel is now in the wrong direction. All do-able with access to a decent set of machine tools.

The goal is drive through the chain with none of the downsides of the Stokemonkey layout, freewheel cranks or Cyclone reliability issues. Yes, you can always use hub motors in the normal way and double up if necessary. But that's not I'm talking about.

 

[flecc]

But don't forget it's all too easy to lose sight of safety.

A pedicab/rickshaw with an adult and three kids on board weighing at least 240 kilos is not going to be very
safe at 15 mph in territory with up to 16% slopes. They go down as well as up! In my view twice walking
speed is about the limit for safety.

So putting lots of effort into geared drives to give a good speed range can have limited benefits when something
like a hub motor Heinzmann high torque version geared/wheeled for 8 mph maximum can do the job. This is
especially true for someone, like here, who really wants to put in good pedal effort.
.

 

[inglese66]

But don't forget it's all too easy to lose sight of safety.

A pedicab/rickshaw with an adult and three kids on board weighing at least 240 kilos is not going to be very
safe at 15 mph in territory with up to 16% slopes. They go down as well as up! In my view twice walking speed is about the limit for safety.
.

Agreed! Need a good breaking system! And as I said before, I can avoid the steepest inclines, let's say maximum slope will be 11% for about 100 metres, the rest around 7%.

So putting lots of effort into geared drives to give a good speed range can have limited benefits when something
like a hub motor Heinzmann high torque version geared/wheeled for 8 mph maximum can do the job. This is
especially true for someone, like here, who really wants to put in good pedal effort.
.

Want to pedal, need to pedal. No pain, no gain!

 

[inglese66]

There may be an option here. Make up a bracket to bolt onto the disk side. Include enough thread to take both sprockets and a reverse threaded locknut. Work out and fix if the internal freewheel is now in the wrong direction. All do-able with access to a decent set of machine tools.

The goal is drive through the chain with none of the downsides of the Stokemonkey layout, freewheel cranks or Cyclone reliability issues. Yes, you can always use hub motors in the normal way and double up if necessary. But that's not I'm talking about.

They help me to understand words like "reverse threaded locknut"

 

[Andy_82]

I am an Englishman living and working in Agropoli in the south of Italy. I have a desire - to build a power-assisted rickshaw bike to take my 3 children to school in the mornings and then proceed onto work, a round trip of some 8 - 10 km.

I have joined various forums and entered various discussions, both in Italian and English, with the aim of achieving this goal and I have also created a video appeal for help. The youtube link is:

YouTube - A VIDEO MESSAGE FOR PESWIKI CONTRIBUTORS

So far your Italian cousins

Forum Indipendente Biciclette Elettriche - una bici-rickshaw a pedalata assistita? Siiiiii !

have been very helpful, suggesting a "double freewheel" 250 watt centrally-mounted motor (from, for example, Cyclone). However doubts remain concerning the necessary power of the motor, especially as there are slopes of between 7 and 15%.

View attachment 1917View attachment 1918

We have also discussed the choice between a traditional rickshaw bike and an Indonesian "becak" (front-loading).

View attachment 1920View attachment 1919

I guess what I find so strange is why the rickshaw bike is not a more important means of travel in the western world. Sure, the tourists like a ride around London in the summer, but it seems that it has been excluded as a means of transporting the family, as happens all over Asia.

So what's stopping me from going out and buying one? Well, the price for one thing! Cycles Maximus build beautiful models, with lynch motors and electric assist but they will set you back over £6000 and they are heavy (135 Kg). Others cost even more.

This is basically a bike with a 250 watt motor! I find it difficult to justify such high prices. It would probably be cheaper flying to India, buying a rickshaw bike there and driving it back. Rickshaw bikes will never be taken seriously with prices like that!

I would love a solar powered rickshaw bike (which I imagine would work very well in south Italy) and I would most likely get rid of my car.

What advice can you give me?

Hi Inglesse,

If you complain about 135kg with Cycles maximus then why not try the Maxpro Street Flyer pedicab rickshaw

At least weights 60kg with an electric assist, sadly it does cost 3595 +1295 for heinzmann power hub

 

[inglese66]

Look what I found.........

http://www.pedicabforum.com/download/rickshaw-design-plans/blueprint-rickshaw-1.pdf

http://www.pedicabforum.com/download/rickshaw-design-plans/blueprint-rickshaw-2.pdf

 

[jbond]

They help me to understand words like "reverse threaded locknut"

Sorry, Take a look down here to see what I'm getting at.
VeloSolo Shop - Threaded Fixed Wheel Cogs, Hubs and Accessories

Track racing bicycles usually have a fixed gear with no freewheel. The bits in the shop above consist of a cog that screws on to a standard thread on the rear hub. Just like a normal bike, when you pedal the forces all tend to tighten the cog onto the hub. But when you brake with your pedals and reverse the forces, it's going to unwind. So what they do is have a thread on the outside which is a slightly smaller diameter so the cog will slip over it, and then have a ring that threads onto this in the reverse direction. Pull the fixed cog one way and it tightens itself. Pull it the other and it butts up against this ring which then tries to tighten itself. So the fixed cog is won't ever come loose.

Now back to the mid mounted hub motor. It's got a standard freewheel thread. We need to get a fixed cog like the ones above onto that, then a single speed freewheel. And then stop them both from unwinding under the forces from the hub motor and pedalling. And if the freewheel mount is part of a motor cover that is spun on, we also have to stop that cover from spinning off. Now, just maybe this can be done with grub screws in the fixed cog to stop anything unwinding, and a bottom bracket thread to extend the freewheel mount enough to get the single speed freewheel on there.

Logically the other thing to do is to make up a Top Hat shaped bracket that is bolted to the hub on the disk side with a double thread section like these track hubs so we can screw on a fixed track cog, a BMX style single freewheel and a lock ring to stop it all unwinding.

 

[inglese66]

Hi Inglesse,

If you complain about 135kg with Cycles maximus then why not try the Maxpro Street Flyer pedicab rickshaw

At least weights 60kg with an electric assist, sadly it does cost 3595 +1295 for heinzmann power hub

I know! (GASP) It looks lovely!

Perhaps I can sell my mother-in-law?

Noo, only joking! And anyway I'd never get £5000 for her!

But if I were to throw in my wife .......

 

[inglese66]

Just to let you all know that I am gathering bike parts - my local tip is putting aside all the bikes that arrive! In the meantime I am still looking at different models/designs.

Watch this space!

 

[PennyFarthing]

Good luck! I'm a huge fan of southern Italy (and the rest of Italy but my heart is in the south). The local children will LOVE it and ALL will want a ride. (If you ever manage to build one....).