Very nice bike. Believe it or not, I almost bought it, but felt was a bit too expensive. The A2B is more expensive, but I got a good deal, which made it cheaper than the Wisper. Erm...next time perhaps!Hi E Moses, the Wisper Torque is a bike. It has the best of all worlds.
1. Excellent Torque sensor.
2. Cadence only mode.
3. Throttle to 4mph and full throttle when turning the pedals forward.
Its not something you can fit to your A2B!
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All the best, David
I got my A2B Hybrid, and I'm hating it.
- Thread starter E Moses
- Start date
I think you're referring to the A2B Metro. It's quite lumpy and, as you say, almost a moped rather than a bicycle. Let alone that fact that with the standard battery it comes with the range is no more than 20 miles. You'll need to buy the spare battery to add another 20 miles.
As someone who doesn't yet have an e-bike and doesn't understand the difference between torque-sensing and cadence, I'm concerned about making the right choice if and when I buy an e-bike. I'd optimistically thought that all you had to do with an e-bike was ride it as you would an ordinary bike and it did the rest. Seems maybe not. Advice or further info would be welcome. And how do I know which system a bike I'm interested in uses?
I always think that a torque sensor gives a cyclist help when needed like when on a hill, a cadence sensor may need you to assist it when on a hill.
It depends on why you want a bike.
It depends on why you want a bike.
Hi Weatear, that's exactly how bikes with Torque sensors work.
Welcome to the forum!
All the best, David
if you ride everyday, you will probably like TS. You get to keep the same sort of rythm, just go faster. Otherwise, stick with normal cadence sensor.
If you have a health issue, then a full throttle is desirable.
The oft-repeated advice to test-ride several different bikes applies in your case, 'wheatear'.
As to the question you pose in the last sentence, any decent bike seller will happily tell you which system a particular model employs. Ring a few and ask them; then you can perhaps get around a few of the shops with bikes that interest you and discover the difference for yourself.
You may find that considerations other than the method of power delivery are more important - such as price, geometry and fit, weight and adjustability.
Enjoy the learning curve.
Tom
Just to confuse matters more I've ridden a torque sensor bike that felt like a cadence sensor bike to me, it was very one-dimensional with little reward from any hard effort you put in, certainly not rewarding to ride like a Bosch crank-drive is.
I'm not surprised some importers are considering dropping torque sensor bikes from their range if they respond in the same way as the one I rode.
I'm not surprised some importers are considering dropping torque sensor bikes from their range if they respond in the same way as the one I rode.
Well, torque sensor requires that you put in some power for the bike to give you more power. Meaning, as soon as you push the pedal the bike moves. It goes fast when you keep up a momentum. I guess hitting 15Mph - which is the limit in Europe, all you need to do is just pedal along and the bike should keep you going. Perhaps at such speed you won't feel the motor, but it's there assisting you. It's most felt when you are at a slow pace and want to accelerate.
Cadence sensing bikes, at least the one I used, will push you along as long as you spin the crank. All you need to do is pedal very lightly - it's not the pressure you put on the pedal, but rather the process of spinning the bike crank...hardly breaking any sweat. This kind of bikes often come with a throttle. Mine had a twist throttle like a moped. If you can't be bothered pedalling you can just twist the throttle and off you go. On a flat surface, it should give you about 12-15Mph.
Ideally, for me, I sort of like the torque sensor, but would also like a throttle for those times when I'm totally knackered. In a perfect world, I'd like the three types in one bike...
D
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I'll attempt to explain the difference. This is a generalisation. There's many different combinations and variations:
With a torque sensor and torque control system, the harder you pedal the more torque you get from the motor, so It multiplies your torque. The multiplication factor depends on a setting on your control panel. The power is easy to control, but you don't get enough power if your legs get tired, so better for people that don't get tired legs.
A cadence sensor tells your controller that you're pedalling so the controller gives a fixed amount of power when you pedal. The amount of power is selectable from a control panel. You can still get maximum power with tired legs as long as you can turn the pedals.
The expensive bikes often use a combination of both systems.
There's many types of controller, which is the box that controls the amount of power to the motor. Exactly how they give it depends on algorithms in their software, so it isn't enough to divide into two catogories of TS and CS. Trying one bike with a TS and comparing it with one with a CS isn't enough. There's some lovely bikes with CS systems and rubbish ones with TSs, and vice versa.
One final consideration. The Chinese control systems, whether TS or CS, (but mainly CS ones) use two principle modes of power control. Some use speed control and some use torque control. Speed control means that the controller aims for a set speed, which is selectable from a panel (though it doesn't tell you the speed) and uses its own power algorithms to keep you at that speed. Torque control, gives a fixed amount of power regardless of your speed. The speed control systems give a more fierce start, but have the advantage that they self-adjust the power for hill-climbing. Torque control gives a gentle start, assuming that a low level is selected for starting, and so feels better, but you have to turn up the power when you encounter a hill. These modes are not dependent on whether you have a TS or CS. Don't get confused between torque sensor and torque control. Though not so common, you can have a torque sensor and a speed control controller.
The only system that I'd avoid, because the other systems are better, is the ones with only one level of PAS (no control panel) because they give you full power whenever you pedal, which is not necessarily what you want.
Whatever system you have, they all work, and you soon adjust to them.
With a torque sensor and torque control system, the harder you pedal the more torque you get from the motor, so It multiplies your torque. The multiplication factor depends on a setting on your control panel. The power is easy to control, but you don't get enough power if your legs get tired, so better for people that don't get tired legs.
A cadence sensor tells your controller that you're pedalling so the controller gives a fixed amount of power when you pedal. The amount of power is selectable from a control panel. You can still get maximum power with tired legs as long as you can turn the pedals.
The expensive bikes often use a combination of both systems.
There's many types of controller, which is the box that controls the amount of power to the motor. Exactly how they give it depends on algorithms in their software, so it isn't enough to divide into two catogories of TS and CS. Trying one bike with a TS and comparing it with one with a CS isn't enough. There's some lovely bikes with CS systems and rubbish ones with TSs, and vice versa.
One final consideration. The Chinese control systems, whether TS or CS, (but mainly CS ones) use two principle modes of power control. Some use speed control and some use torque control. Speed control means that the controller aims for a set speed, which is selectable from a panel (though it doesn't tell you the speed) and uses its own power algorithms to keep you at that speed. Torque control, gives a fixed amount of power regardless of your speed. The speed control systems give a more fierce start, but have the advantage that they self-adjust the power for hill-climbing. Torque control gives a gentle start, assuming that a low level is selected for starting, and so feels better, but you have to turn up the power when you encounter a hill. These modes are not dependent on whether you have a TS or CS. Don't get confused between torque sensor and torque control. Though not so common, you can have a torque sensor and a speed control controller.
The only system that I'd avoid, because the other systems are better, is the ones with only one level of PAS (no control panel) because they give you full power whenever you pedal, which is not necessarily what you want.
Whatever system you have, they all work, and you soon adjust to them.
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As Artstu says some TS are very one dimensional, they don't give the rider assistance power directly related to the power they put in themselves. This kind of TS is a simple on off switch, it does not measure riders input.
Wisper Torque bikes offer, torque sensor/control, speed sensor and throttle all working in harmony!
All the best, David
Wisper Torque bikes offer, torque sensor/control, speed sensor and throttle all working in harmony!
All the best, David
Some of the earlier ones acted like that, regardless of how they should have worked. One popular Urban Mover model, I forget which model number it was but might have been UM44, came in two versions, cheaper cadence sensor or dearer torque sensor. Those who paid out for the torque sensor version mostly hated it, not only because it was rather on/off in action but because it gave a spongy feel to the pedalling. UM are no longer on the market now, though I believe they still exist in theory, Indian owned by Hero.
That was a hub motor bike and in general all attempts at torque sensor with hub motors were poor until the arrival of a Giant model with the first of the TMM sensors in a rather oddly modified rear frame drop out.
.
As Flecc says these are available in China, and simply turn the power on when the pedals are put under pressure, they don't measure the variable input of Torque from the rider. Most modern TS are very much like the accelerator on a car, the more pressure you put on the pedal the more the assistance helps.
All the best, David
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Seems to be horses for courses.
if you are a cyclist looking for a little help, then Torque sensor.
On the other hand, if you are likely to run out of puff and be unable to pedal then 'Cadence Sensor'
(Is cadence sensor the wrong description? both my bikes have magnet rings which are strictly on/off If the pedals are turning, however slowly, then full power is available if you engage the highest level on the display unit.)
if you are a cyclist looking for a little help, then Torque sensor.
On the other hand, if you are likely to run out of puff and be unable to pedal then 'Cadence Sensor'
(Is cadence sensor the wrong description? both my bikes have magnet rings which are strictly on/off If the pedals are turning, however slowly, then full power is available if you engage the highest level on the display unit.)
I find it's all about learning the characteristics of the bike, and controller. My Secret is cadence, and initially I found the 'All or Nothing' delivery at full power (of 3 settings) a bit awkward - but now I'm entirely used to changing down to low power in heavy traffic, and upward again as the road clears, just as one would change gears. It's become subconscious and makes riding it a lot lot easier. I'd have to do this less with a TS bike, but then I couldn't do things like throttling 3 miles home after a pedal stripped it's thread 'cos I'd not tightened it sufficiently ;-)
When it comes to comparing torque with cadence only sensing systems, I would recommend testing Bosch middive to show how best torque sensing works. This will give a good benchmark. Trying a cheaper bike with poorly setup system may give wrong first impression.
Whisper Torque maybe good 2nd bike to try especially when comparing torque verus cadence as it allows user to switch.
Hi Trevor, if you would like to drop me a line, I would be delighted to arrange a test ride for you.
All the best, David
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