I am looking for a partner to produce an add-on torque sensor for the BBS01

[Woosh]

I have an idea for an add-on torque sensor for the BBS01 but being half retired, I don't want to do all the work.
Is there anyone interested in developing this project with me?
The work involves prototyping and travelling to China.
If it's you, expect no pay until the project works out. I cover the expenses.

 

[cyclebuddy]

I suspect you'll know better than anyone else here, but don't you think Bafang have already thought about/considered/already designed such a thing?

With Bafang's rich heritage of motor manufacture, robust/proven catalogue of products (including the M series with that torque sensor), they must have something up their sleeves.

The whole BBS thing, bullet-proof and highly successful though it is, is a little long in the tooth now. They've got both the existing/proven technology and manufacturing ability to do it - and could easily reduce the size and weight too I don't doubt. Do you think there's just some tactical reason as to why they haven't actually launched such a thing yet?

 

[Woosh]

thank you for replying. Maybe more members want to join in after your post.

I suspect you'll know better than anyone else here, but don't you think Bafang have already thought about/considered/already designed such a thing?
With Bafang's rich heritage of motor manufacture, robust/proven catalogue of products (including the M series with that torque sensor), they must have something up their sleeves.

yes, I am sure you are right on this. They must have already got something like this knocking about in their product development team. If not, they can easily do something 10 times better than what I am trying to achieve.
But..
Would they consider to make a retrofit part though? I think they would release instead a new version under a new designation, something like BBS01Torque for example. Manufacturing wise, it is better to redesign the whole kit instead of modding/adding.

Do you think there's just some tactical reason as to why they haven't actually launched such a thing yet?

I reckon it's because their market share has never been threathened, not by tongsheng, not by any other company in China. They are the biggest and best, and it's not me who is going to change any of that.

 

[Woosh]

I intend to replace the main gear shaft of the BBS01/02 with another that incorporates a torque sensor. To reduce interference and ensure repeatability, the sensing element will be an in-house formula for a magnetoresistive compound and instead of pickup coil, it will be just ordinary contact brush.
Alternatively, I would investigate a method of embedding an off the shelf strain gauge inside an off the shelf polymer.
The idea is simple and low cost. All critics are welcome.

 

[lenny]

Man, a TS retrofit for those Bafangs would be far out! IMO Finding a partner to believe in the profitability of this project to invest as much as you will be a toughie tho. Dragon's Den? Could be fun!

 

[cyclebuddy]

I reckon it's because their market share has never been threathened, not by tongsheng, not by any other company in China. They are the biggest and best...

History shows Bafang don't rest on their laurels. Wasn't it ES who discovered a more reliable hall for their BBS (patchy memory here)? Bafang listened, changed, adopted it. I doubt development of the M series was driven by any fear of threat from competition, rather that they could so they did.

Business wise BBS/2 is long overdue. Maybe they're waiting for the froth of these newcomers/upstarts to fizzle out before they launch something that comprehensively slaughters them!

Maybe you could take (sell) your idea directly to Bafang, or for a royalty, if they bite?

 

[Woosh]

Wasn't it ES who discovered a more reliable hall for their BBS (patchy memory here)?

FETs I think. They changed them to IRFB3077 FETs with model B.

Maybe you could take (sell) your idea directly to Bafang, or for a royalty, if they bite?

ha ha ... in my dreams!

 

[Bikes4two]

• In the event that you do find someone to work with you on the TS, what about the software development angle?
• (I'm assuming the signal from the TS needs to work with the OEM formware? Given how long and the number of iterations in the development of OSF for the TSDZ2, that's a long path to tread. Maybe one of the TSDZ2 OSF fdevelopers from ES might be interested?).

 

[Woosh]

I will write the code for it, similar to the code I wrote for that guy who tried to add a throttle to his HESC suntour bike sold by Halfords. I can do that with the arduino or ESP32 or one of the new RISC V. The coding won't take long. I break out the PAS and throttle signals and use the torque sensor to drive it. There is no need to change the Bafang firmware.
The achilles heel of the project is to sort out production if the prototype works well.
The smaller the production cost, the higher the financial risk.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

I have two questions

1. Are you looking for someone to fly to China to oversee the manufacture of samples, eat Chinese food, and bring prototype sensors back?

2. Are there badgers in China?

p.s. My titanium wrist is very strong.

 

[Woosh]

yes, something like that, although for prototyping, we can do mostly here, up to pre-production samples. After that, we'll need a good Chinese partner to take over the project.That's when going to China is necessary.
If this project works out, I have an idea about a new cycloidal gearbox for bottom bracket motors...

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

Sounds like you need someone who knows all aspects of the technology and it's manufacture, who is also a great communicator and collaborator, with a very strong titanium wrist for heavy lifting. I'll throw my hat in the ring, if you can't find someone with a titanium wrist. I like Chinese food.

 

[Woosh]

thank you for your vote!

 

[Nealh]

One only has to look at the Lingbei mid drive ( ex Bafang engineers) the motor barely got off the ground and it sank without much trace, though some time ago I thought I sa wit on Aliexpress . It wasn't easy to fiind.

 

[Nealh]

I gave up on the BBS after having two controllers go wrong and barely 3200 hard miles on the clock for the pair of them, that was after the fiasco that Tony had with GSMoon drives. My two drives were pretty useless and both failed in fairly quick time , In total only managing a paltry 320 odd miles for the pair of them.

The TSDZ I have , Iam hoping it bucks the trend of those two experiences.

 

[Woosh]

I gave up on the BBS after having two controllers go wrong and barely 3200 hard miles on the clock for the pair of them, that was after the fiasco that Tony had with GSMoon drives. My two drives were pretty useless and both failed in fairly quick time , In total only managing a paltry 320 odd miles for the pair of them.

The TSDZ I have , Iam hoping it bucks the trend of those two experiences.

BBS01B had practically all the early issues sorted. Controllers got better FETs. water seals fit much better. It's rare now to come across a rusty BBS01B. The GSMoon was a disaster. The controller and LCD were not up to scratch.
Since, I never want to be first in line for anything.

 

[guerney]

I will write the code

Write the code first to try using modelled or recorded torque data to see if it's a viable enough an idea, before developing your torque sensor?

It'd take longer to chop away badger collision titanium wrist guy's handcuffed hand with a machette, to steal a briefcase containing your trade secrets at Shenzhen airport. That's a big plus.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

It'd take longer to chop away badger collision titanium wrist guy's handcuffed hand with a machette, to steal a briefcase containing your trade secrets at Shenzhen airport. That's a big plus.

!!!!!

I don't want to go to China.

 

[Nealh]

The best option for the GSM was that which Tony aka anotherkiwi did, use it wih a KT controller . He had good success using it that way.

 

[guerney]

Great quality accurate torque sensors wouldn't be needed for:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/has-anyone-heard-of-or-tried-toseven-mid-drive.44959/page-26#post-679582