Hybrid a la Francaise

[Cyclezee]

A torque plate customer of mine from France sent me some photos of his very interesting dual or should it be triple power bike and I thought I should share them with the forum.
I don't know the full spec, but I will ask.

 

[flecc]

They can get away with quite a lot in parts of France, especially in the rural areas. Europe's Wild West.

 

[funkylyn]

They can get away with quite a lot in parts of France, especially in the rural areas. Europe's Wild West.

Yes, but you want to see what they get away with in rural Andalucia......that really IS the Wild West !!

In any case pics like these makes our usual forum "discussions" about slightly illegal bikes seem, well, slightly ridiculous

Lynda

 

[Kudoscycles]

Yes, but you want to see what they get away with in rural Andalucia......that really IS the Wild West !!

In any case pics like these makes our usual forum "discussions" about slightly illegal bikes seem, well, slightly ridiculous

Lynda

Lynda....'slightly illegal'......I suppose slightly is a relative term but to most people 6 times over the limit is not slightly (250 watt>1500 watt). This site had lots of postings about the Tonaro bikes but not so much lately,are you still pleased with yours?.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

Lynda....'slightly illegal'......I suppose slightly is a relative term but to most people 6 times over the limit is not slightly (250 watt>1500 watt). This site had lots of postings about the Tonaro bikes but not so much lately,are you still pleased with yours?.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Hi Dave......I take your point about the legalities of more power but I still think we shouldnt be so condemning of other peoples choices, I take the attitude of live and let live.

As for my Tonaro, I still love it to bits, it does everything I wanted it to and more.....so yes, still very pleased

Lynda

 

[GaRRy]

Hi Dave......I take your point about the legalities of more power but I still think we shouldnt be so condemning of other peoples choices, I take the attitude of live and let live.

So I am no longer going to bother to tax and insure my car and as for speed limits and rules of the road they don't apply to me !!!!!

You see the problem is where do you draw the line.

 

[funkylyn]

So I am no longer going to bother to tax and insure my car and as for speed limits and rules of the road they don't apply to me !!!!!

You see the problem is where do you draw the line.

Yes but lets not forget that we are talking about a bicycle here not a car.

I dont think speed limits can be an argument seeing as any non assisted bike can go well over the speed limit downhill anyway.......not a lot anyone can do about that.

You have to tax and insure your car...thats the law.....it doesnt apply to bikes so I fail to see your argument there either.

We are talking about a very few people, usually those with a lot of skill and knowledge of electric bikes, wanting a bit more power to use occasionally and they are so few that in all honesty I cant see the problem.

Also, argueing the toss on this forum isnt going to achieve anything so I just feel its futile to even try.

There are lots of other pleasanter subjects we can talk about.....anyone been on a particularly good ride recently and has pictures to share ?

Lynda

 

[indalo]

So I am no longer going to bother to tax and insure my car and as for speed limits and rules of the road they don't apply to me !!!!!

You see the problem is where do you draw the line.

I understand your point entirely GaRRy except for your question at the end. The legislators have already drawn the lines for us, both in regard to cars and to ebikes. We must either abide by those laws or we are no different from any other criminals. Whether laws are regarded as sensible or silly is irrelevant. Those who choose to break laws should be condemned.

With regard to ebikes, there is absolutely no justification, (or need!) for anyone in the UK to ride anything more powerful than those legally compliant ebikes unless it's a moped, scooter or motorcycle with all that goes with that territory.

Indalo

 

[flecc]

Yes, but you want to see what they get away with in rural Andalucia......that really IS the Wild West !!

In any case pics like these makes our usual forum "discussions" about slightly illegal bikes seem, well, slightly ridiculous

Lynda

Well they would be ridiculous if we had their policing Lynda. Unfortunately we have our British policing of all kinds, just ask our fishermen about the policing of them and their Spanish counterparts in respect of fisheries protection.

It's the fact of British legal rigidity that makes our discussion of e-bike law relevant. You'd be amazed if you knew how far just one police officer, backed his force, went to try to prosecute someone for riding a 250 watt e-bike since our old law still in force specifies 200 watts. It took a huge effort involving many at very high levels to stop the full possible effect of that happening. Because of the sensitivities involved, I can't specify the parties concerned.

 

[GaRRy]

I understand your point entirely GaRRy except for your question at the end. The legislators have already drawn the lines for us, both in regard to cars and to ebikes. We must either abide by those laws or we are no different from any other criminals. Whether laws are regarded as sensible or silly is irrelevant. Those who choose to break laws should be condemned.

With regard to ebikes, there is absolutely no justification, (or need!) for anyone in the UK to ride anything more powerful than those legally compliant ebikes unless it's a moped, scooter or motorcycle with all that goes with that territory.

Indalo

Yep I know the line is drawn. The point im making is that if you dont agree with it how far should you be prepared to move it. My example was a extreme but it uses precisely the same logic as those who use illegal ebikes use.

To not condemn illegal acts just because few people do it or its doing "no harm" is a very slippery slope.

And no im not some kind of angel who has never pushed the line.

And yes Lynn your right arguing the toss here wont change anything but to point out that certain things are not legal is not arguing its making a statement of fact which people can ignore if they wish.

Would love to go for a nice bike ride but have knackered my achilles tendon and am suposed to be resting at much as possible

 

[flecc]

Sorry to hear that Garry. Make sure you do rest, it wouldn't be good as a recurring condition.

 

[Cyclezee]

Armand, the owner of the bike is in the process of joining the forum, but in the meantime has said he is happy for me to post some more details about his bike. He also sent some more photos which I will post this evening

"Hi John,

Well, I did sign up for the forum last night and after reading the new posts from some other members, ahhh, I think I'll just give you some info on the bike. Your welcome to post it or not. I think I would be conceived as a criminal by some over there. Anyway, the bike is just electric, before that it was a little 66cc gas bike. I wanted something more quiet and less greasy, but retaining the power I had from the 66cc. So, I went with electric. I am not very skilled with electronics, but know some people who are. So, I purchased a MXUS Direct Drive hub 1000w motor from China, had the people I know upgrade the phase wires and also had made a higher output controller, running a 52v 11.5a A123 cell batteries. I am not sure of the total wattage of the motor, but have been told she could handle 3000w in small bursts. I am aware that she is illegal here in Europe, but the bike will be going back to the U.S. sometime, not sure which State and will have to deal with the local laws then. Anyway, thank you for the torque arms. The parts I was looking to buy for this kit, I couldn't find anywhere in France, but just about everything can be found in China.


Thanks,


Armand"

 

[flecc]

If you read this Armand, welcome to the forum.

As I implied above in this post, our apparently often harsh attitudes towards law breaking result in no small part from the strict application of the law by our authorities, for whom tolerance is generally unknown. We are just reacting in accordance with our environment and experiences.

I think we've got it wrong and forgotten that the law exists to serve us, not for us to serve it.

 

[hech]

Flecc, in the interest of democratic accountability and freedom of blether I wish you would elaborate more on the attempted prosecution story.

 

[flecc]

I'm afraid I can't say much Hech, since my involvement of giving advice on the legal conflicts involved and the way they could impede prosecution was asked for on a strictly confidential basis.

All I can say is that the police officer was a traffic officer and it was a road accident that drew his attention to the e-bike. On finding out the legal obstruction to the charge that I had advised, he enlisted his force to fight for him as well, which they did, trying different laws to raise a charge, all of which I advised valid objections for. Meanwhile industry approaches at very high government levels in parallel eventually resulted in a satisfactory outcome which even I don't know due to the sensitivities. Since it is known that the necessary changes in law were pending and will probably be enacted within a year, I suspect a fudge was adopted on a one-off basis. There is no precedent therefore.

There are defence arguments to such a charge which can ultimately lead the authorities into a trap in which two relevant departments of the DfT have directly opposing legislatively backed views about which is the law in force, 200 watt or 250 watt. Since the DfT are the source of the meaning and spirit of those laws, that leaves the courts with an impossible situation to judge.
.

 

[GaRRy]

Sorry to hear that Garry. Make sure you do rest, it wouldn't be good as a recurring condition.

Oh the irony. Just spent 3 weeks resting it and finally got to hospital to be told I need to exercise it till it really hurts to get it fixed !!!!!!

Oh we'll at least it was 3 weeks of working from home saving be 3 hour a day of commuting

 

[amigafan2003]

I think we've got it wrong and forgotten that the law exists to serve us, not for us to serve it.

Amen to that!

 

[flecc]

Oh the irony. Just spent 3 weeks resting it and finally got to hospital to be told I need to exercise it till it really hurts to get it fixed !!!!!!

I can understand that Garry, first rest to repair, then exercise to strengthen. Makes sense.

 

[Cyclezee]

As promised earlier,

Here are more photos of Armand's bike.

 

[amigafan2003]

Those torque arms look nice and thick - I think I might be putting in an order for my next project