Hub motors vs Mid-drive, anything changed?

[Klang180]

Hello forum goers.

I bought a Yosepower 48v rear hub motor kit about two years ago and have no complaints. It is reliable, fairly quick and does what it is supposed to do.

I have since though been thinking about a second project (technically third as I converted a bike for my GF too) and have started looking at mid drives again. I have seen a rather nice used Sirrus X 2.0 which is well priced and would probably look great with a mid drive. Two years ago the general consensus was that Hubs were more reliable and more 'fit and forget' whereas the mid-drives required regular servicing and a desire to tinker with them but I wonder if this is still the case? Are the Bafang and Tongsheng offerings still less reliable and more prone to failure than a hub motor or have they improved?

I like the idea of the more centred weight, more natural feeling and potential power gain (torque) of the mid drive and I don't mind servicing yearly for example but I don't want errors and parts failing (who does?) getting in the way.

So are hub motors still the 'better' choice for someone who wants a relatively zippy bike without all the hassle or have mid drives become less hassle over the past two years?

 

[soundwave]

my bosch performance motor from 2014 is still working and had a dongle on it all of its life the transfer gear is a bit worn but still usable.

peter at performance line bearings can service these things now with new bearings but if a controller goes down or the bms stops working can become door stops as no fix yet for those as they dont sell any parts like that.

just depends what you want the bike to do really

 

[sjpt]

You can get torque sensing with some hub drives now, and the best current controlled cadence sensors have improved (so I hear from other people's posts here), which reduces that benefit of the crank drive.

There have been some reliability issues with the Tongsheng (again from reports here, not my first hand knowledge), but a lot of these seem to have resulted from poor fitting. You will still get through drive train components quicker on a crank drive; how much that matters depends on how you ride and how happy you are to do a (fairly small) amount of extra maintenance on the bike.

It remains that most up market models use proprietary crank drive systems which are mostly reliable but can be almost impossible to work on yourself and expensive to have worked on by others, but I don't think you were considering these.

 

[Klang180]

Thanks to you both for your thought out replies.

I am sort of interested in the torque sensor but then again I think I have ridden one of these (E-motion EZ Jet) and I actually hated the way it wanted me to put in work before it gave me anything! If that is what a Tongsheng is like then I might well be best steering clear of those.

I like to tinker with bikes and have not problems doing the mechanical side of things, it is just faults and overly regular maintenance I don't want.

I guess with the components needing more regular changing and the original asking price being more a mid drive is still the option for those with deeper pockets or more time. I have been fairly happy with the Yosepower but I wouldn't mind just a little more grunt up hills and when pulling away. Maybe I should look at a larger hub motor instead?

Thanks again.

 

[soundwave]

i over take the race bikes on the road i can get to 30mph pretty fast and my new cx motor has even more grunt with 15nm more.

 

[vidtek]

Thanks to you both for your thought out replies.

I am sort of interested in the torque sensor but then again I think I have ridden one of these (E-motion EZ Jet) and I actually hated the way it wanted me to put in work before it gave me anything! If that is what a Tongsheng is like then I might well be best steering clear of those.

I like to tinker with bikes and have not problems doing the mechanical side of things, it is just faults and overly regular maintenance I don't want.

I guess with the components needing more regular changing and the original asking price being more a mid drive is still the option for those with deeper pockets or more time. I have been fairly happy with the Yosepower but I wouldn't mind just a little more grunt up hills and when pulling away. Maybe I should look at a larger hub motor instead?

Thanks again.

@Klang180
I fitted my Tongsheng from Whoosh 2 years ago, and have been happy with it. If you include the throttle with the kit, it makes life easier when starting off especially up hill and in traffic when at a standing start it can stop the wobbling in front of the traffic.
It also can give you that full-power spurt to get you out of trouble. I would agree wth you about mid-drive torque sensor kits that do not include a throttle. I personally believe it should be illegal to sell an e-bike or kit without one. The beauty of the Tongsheng kit is you are required to put more effort in when on low-power assist settings, but if you increase the assist level it's super quick with hardly any effort at all.
Cheers Tony.

 

[Klang180]

@Klang180
I fitted my Tongsheng from Whoosh 2 years ago, and have been happy with it. If you include the throttle with the kit, it makes life easier when starting off especially up hill and in traffic when at a standing start it can stop the wobbling in front of the traffic.
It also can give you that full-power spurt to get you out of trouble. I would agree wth you about mid-drive torque sensor kits that do not include a throttle. I personally believe it should be illegal to sell an e-bike or kit without one. The beauty of the Tongsheng kit is you are required to put more effort in when on low-power assist settings, but if you increase the assist level it's super quick with hardly any effort at all.
Cheers Tony.

Hello vidtek, thanks for your input, always a great perspective to have. I didn't know the torque sensor acted differently on the higher power modes, that is really interesting. Thanks.

 

[vidtek]

I have tried all three motors front, mid and rear, and am happiest with the Tongsheng mid-drive kit. I try to leave the assist off as much as possible to exercise a bit when on the flat with little wind resistance but the second there is an incline or a stiff breeze in my face it goes on pretty fast!

 

[Klang180]

I have tried all three motors front, mid and rear, and am happiest with the Tongsheng mid-drive kit. I try to leave the assist off as much as possible to exercise a bit when on the flat with little wind resistance but the second there is an incline or a stiff breeze in my face it goes on pretty fast!

Sounds like me. I have a road bike for exercise and a electric for getting around which I usually leave on a low setting, but as soon as it gets even slightly hilly my thumb is itching for that throttle!

 

[dwvl]

I try to leave the assist off as much as possible to exercise a bit when on the flat with little wind resistance but the second there is an incline or a stiff breeze in my face it goes on pretty fast!

I suppose I achieve the same effect by trying to pedal at 16mph, but leaving the PAS level at maximum all the time, and never touching the throttle...

I can achieve 16mph on the level using my own pedal power, and the motor provides no assistance at that speed. But as soon as I slow down due to a hill or wind or tiredness, the motor kicks in all by itself.

By the time I'm down to 9mph or so, the motor is providing 400W or so of power

eBikes are great!