Hub motor v Mid drive motor?

[eelec2708]

Is one more efficient than the other and by how much?

Are individual brands more efficient than others and by how much?

The reason I ask is that I am looking at upgrading from my previous hub drive Oxygen CB Cross - an excellent bike with great after sales support from Oxygen.

One bike I am considering is the Look 765 Gravel. This has a Fazua motor which I think is different from most other mid drive motors. Does the Fazua motor differ in efficiency from more traditional mid drive motors?

Thanks for any information.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Is one more efficient than the other and by how much?

Are individual brands more efficient than others and by how much?

The reason I ask is that I am looking at upgrading from my previous hub drive Oxygen CB Cross - an excellent bike with great after sales support from Oxygen.

One bike I am considering is the Look 765 Gravel. This has a Fazua motor which I think is different from most other mid drive motors. Does the Fazua motor differ in efficiency from more traditional mid drive motors?

Thanks for any information.

Its always a good idea to gather information from all sources available, before investing anything!
Before going as far as looking at brands, may I suggest that you first concentrate on types, hub or mid, is a good place to start IMHO!
Remember, you should always do your own research for ANY bike you are interested in, hub or mid, and take into account all the "pros & Cons" of the different styles available.
I myself, before buying anything of value, use a PC and Excel or similar, to compare carefully all aspects of the possible purchases I might make.
In the above question that you pose, there are several vitally important major and but basic differences between mid and hub motors, some of which can eventually be very annoying to an owner of say a mid motor bike, for reasons unclear before owning!
I have written about these differences, several times (to the annoyance of a few of the mid motor lovers) here on Pedelec.
Nothing difficult, and anyone with just a very basic understanding of mechanics, can fully assimilate the problems and the mechanical differences.
But if you are unable to find the references of mine on Pedelec, but still wish to know and understand them, just contact me and I will reiterate them for you.
Warning, a loud and rude few here, apparently defending their choice of mid motor bikes, have it their aim, to try and prove how "good" their choice is, by calling people names who have a different opinion!
Please take such "help" with a large helping of salt, and make your own free, fully informed and educated choice.....
Let no one sway you......
Best wishes and never forget, let it be YOUR choice. Not anyone else's....
Remember, you will have to live with the results, not them!
Regards and best wishes.
Andy
PS. Wait and see them start attacking me personally, once they have read my post above.....same old, same old?

 

[Woosh]

Does the Fazua motor differ in efficiency from more traditional mid drive motors?

No. It offers a different riding experience.
If you are prepared to spend £3k+ on that Look 765 Gravel, you must try it before deciding.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Is one more efficient than the other and by how much?

Are individual brands more efficient than others and by how much?

The reason I ask is that I am looking at upgrading from my previous hub drive Oxygen CB Cross - an excellent bike with great after sales support from Oxygen.

One bike I am considering is the Look 765 Gravel. This has a Fazua motor which I think is different from most other mid drive motors. Does the Fazua motor differ in efficiency from more traditional mid drive motors?

Thanks for any information.

I forgot to mention, that mid motors (all that I have seen anyway), use the same chain for motor and muscle power.
Its the single point of failure.
Hub motors do not use the chain, and all the ones I have known (not all), allowed pedaling if a motor failed, and also due to the pas sensor being on the crank, activated the motor to get you home if the chain failed.
Mid motors allow pushing only, except if you are at the top of a hill, then gravity helps!.
Andy

 

[darren66]

I forgot to mention, that mid motors (all that I have seen anyway), use the same chain for motor and muscle power.
Its the single point of failure.
Hub motors do not use the chain, and all the ones I have known (not all), allowed pedaling if a motor failed, and also due to the pas sensor being on the crank, activated the motor to get you home if the chain failed.
Mid motors allow pushing only, except if you are at the top of a hill, then gravity helps!.
Andy

Not really an argument for hub over mid-mount motors, in nearly 50 years of cycling road, gravel, mountain and ebike, I've never had a chain fail. I feel its more down to poor maintenance, I clean and lube a chain every couple of months, unless conditions require more frequently.

 

[Amoto65]

Not really an argument for hub over mid-mount motors, in nearly 50 years of cycling road, gravel, mountain and ebike, I've never had a chain fail. I feel its more down to poor maintenance, I clean and lube a chain every couple of months, unless conditions require more frequently.

Totally agree I have never had a chain fail either, Both hub and mid-motor have their plus points depending on what you want from them, I own 1 of each and they are both excellent in their respective ways, I suggest you try and get a test ride( not easy I know) and speak to people who have actually owned them for advice.

 

[mike killay]

I have both hub and crank drive bikes.
The crank drive will go up quite seriously steep hills.
The hub motor, whilst appearing to be a bit more powerful than the crank driver soon loses power as the gradient steepens.
What goes wrong with the hub motor is that although you change down the pedalling gear ratio once you get down to about 5 mph, the hub is nearly stalling and does not give its full power, so that you are pedalling in bottom gear but not getting full assistance.
The crank driver avoids this trap because as you change down pedalling gear, you also change down the motor gear.
Think of a hub motor as trying to drive a car everywhere in 3rd gear.
Still, I like them both.
Horses for courses as they say.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Not really an argument for hub over mid-mount motors, in nearly 50 years of cycling road, gravel, mountain and ebike, I've never had a chain fail. I feel its more down to poor maintenance, I clean and lube a chain every couple of months, unless conditions require more frequently.

I think that failed maintenance does not help, and one could carry a spare chain and a few tools.
But having spent part of my like in the military, you get to know about "single points of failure", and how to avoid them, (if one so wishes, a personal choice of course!).
This says it perfectly to my mind:-
A single point of failure (SPOF) is a potential risk posed by a flaw in the design, implementation or configuration of a circuit or system in which one fault or malfunction causes an entire system to stop operating.

What is single point of failure (SPOF)? - Definition from WhatIs.com

A single point of failure (SPOF) is a potential risk posed by a flaw in the design, implementation or configuration of a circuit or system in which one fault or malfunction causes an entire system to stop operating.

searchdatacenter.techtarget.com

Each to his own!
You speak as though I should not be "allowed" to mention it here. Surely I have misunderstood you?
So I will mention it again:-
Mid Motor e-bikes mostly (I have never seen one that doesn't myself!) have a single point of failure!!
Andy

 

[Nealh]

What no one has mentioned with the geared hub motor is it really depends on the motor winding/rpm of the hub as to how well it might climb inclines. Most just say hubs are no good without reason, you can't label all hubs as no good. You have to know the rpm to make the point. A faster winding like 270/300rpm will fade on hills though you could throw more amps at it to help over come the lower torque some what, on the other hand a higher torque 201rpm or a an even lower 160/170 rpm motor will take inclines in its stride albeit not at high speed.

 

[RoadieRoger]

I have two with Hub drives and one with a Crank Drive . Give me the Hub any day for a more natural ride . It also cruises faster with less effort . Not a great deal of difference on steep hills but the Crank one is more viscious on take off and has the potential to catch you out , particularly in narrow lanes .

 

[Ocsid]

Bikes like many things are riddled with potential single point failure, features, it does not reflect a flawed design, it reflects more a considered design approach involving a huge chunk of "probability of failure".

A puncture, a failed road wheel axle or rim, a headstock or even the frame itself.
Even with aircraft, we did not design them out, we just as with the bike items mentioned accepted that by designing them out, the design is otherwise compromised. For example, adding a second wing, "just in case", would be with a high tech fighter aircraft.

If the chain of the e-bike gives such cause for concern, then the product selected is not up to the task asked of it, for that person.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Bikes like many things are riddled with potential single point failure, features, it does not reflect a flawed design, it reflects more a considered design approach involving a huge chunk of "probability of failure".

A puncture, a failed road wheel axle or rim, a headstock or even the frame itself.
Even with aircraft, we did not design them out, we just as with the bike items mentioned accepted that the design is otherwise compromised. For example, adding a second wing, "just in case", would be with a high tech fighter aircraft.

If the chain of the e-bike gives such cause for concern, then the product selected is not up to the task asked of it, for that person.

Very true.
Expecting a chain, with maybe a powerful motor, and good leg muscles, to last much more than 1,000KMs, in hilly country where I live, is asking for trouble, plus the cassette is often worn quite quickly as well....On my first e-bike, I changed the cassette after about 5 years of very heavy usage, over 10,000 KMs at that point (from memory only), and the chain was replaced probably ever 2 years or so...it never broke though. I measured the stretch, which any good rider should be doing of course!
But each to his own choice as to if they are for him/her acceptable or not.
Some things can be improved upon, for example, I have managed, in a very simple and cheap way, to make my tyres seemingly puncture proof, after a spate of punctures many years ago. But I always replace the tube when a tyre is worn out, and the old tread, gets cut off and placed between tyre and tube.
Speaking only for myself, electrical failures don't stop me getting home, as I always have battery lights, front and back as well, though I might need to push uphill if the main battery is empty!
On two hub bikes, I have not had a single motor problem....never seen inside either of them. To me, it has not proven, up to now, to be a single point of failure, though theoretically, it could be....On that score, I have around 10 years of problem free riding....
Its getting the failures down to an acceptable level, or not and good, simple maintenance as well....
Andy

 

[Nosweat]

I have a Woosh XF07 front hub with torque sensor. The chain is a single point of failure since if it falls off or snaps I can't pedal home. However the amount of stress on the chain is probably less than it would be under leg only power since the motor is doing some of the work and very definitely less than the stress on the chain from a crank motor. I chose the set up because I wanted something that felt natural and that was reliable/low maintenance. It hasn't disappointed.

 

[eelec2708]

Many thanks to all for such detailed responses.

So much information has highlighted points I had not considered.

I will continue my research better informed and focussed.

 

[mike killay]

carry a spare chain, or at least a few quick links and a chain splitter.