Hub gears for my bike

[chris_n]

Im already using a wipperman chain !, very good chains.

It wasnt the chain failing that caused all the damage, it was the gear cable snapping inside the sheath, the gear changing has been a bit sticky and difficult for a few weeks, and i just push through it thinking i must sort that out, but then forget, and yesterday the cable snapped and i realised that i hadnt set the rear deaurailleur low and high stop screws as i was relying on the gear changer to control it, so it shot into the wheel and destroyed itself !

Surely it moves away from the wheel into (beyond if stops not set) top gear!

 

[Topdonkey]

Surely it moves away from the wheel into (beyond if stops not set) top gear!

Your right of course, i forgot that !, but it was the cable snapping as i changed gear that caused all this damage and the changer ended up in the wheel, possibly as it tried to change 9 gears instantly, the chain got caught up and the gearset then used the chain to wrench the changer off the bike and it just happend to end up in the wheel ??, lots of possibilities !

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think you got it the wrong way round. you hadn't set the low gear end stop, so you pulled the derailleur into the spokes, which then dragged it further to snap the cable.

I've rescued three guys that had the same problem, though their wheels were just jammed. No spokes broke, so a roadside repair was possible on two, but the third bust his derailleur completely. I towed him home.

Obviously, the low gear end-stop is a very important adjustment that you have to get right.

There's nothing wrong with derailleur gears. they're strong and reliable as long as you adjust them correctly. You only have to do it once, and it takes about 5 minutes, so no excuses and no sympathy in this case. If you couldn't be bothered to adjust your Rohlhoff properly, you'd be looking at a considerably bigger repair bill.

 

[Topdonkey]

I think you got it the wrong way round. you hadn't set the low gear end stop, so you pulled the derailleur into the spokes, which then dragged it further to snap the cable.

I've rescued three guys that had the same problem, though their wheels were just jammed. No spokes broke, so a roadside repair was possible on two, but the third bust his derailleur completely. I towed him home.

Obviously, the low gear end-stop is a very important adjustment that you have to get right.

There's nothing wrong with derailleur gears. they're strong and reliable as long as you adjust them correctly. You only have to do it once, and it takes about 5 minutes, so no excuses and no sympathy in this case. If you couldn't be bothered to adjust your Rohlhoff properly, you'd be looking at a considerably bigger repair bill.

#sigh# your not making a good case for me to buy a rohloff !!, in my excitement 2 years ago, i forgot to set the min max range screws thinking i'll give it a ride, let it settle in, then adjust it, but forgot, that was untill it went into the wheel when i shouted 'oh dear' (or words to that effect!) still its the horse and the stable door, not much i can do about it now.

But i'm back on the idea of a fat bike now with no suspension instead of a rohloff, and just using a zee shadow mech or similar along with properly setting it up this time !!.

Choices choices, and £600 to spend

 

[Rohloffboy]

The problem with derailleur gears apart from the fact that they are so last century, is that on an Ebike with CD Drive is that you are never going to get the same gear range as what a triple Chain set and 9 Speed cassette provides.

This is were the Rohloff comes in and solves the issue.

I have been riding my Rohloff equipped none ebike since 2004, well worth the £500 for the hub as it was back then.

At the time I was lucky enough to buy a bunch of Rohloff SLT-99 (8 Speed) chains, £20 each or so back then, and I am still on my first one!

Just waiting now for the right Bafang Max Drive ebike to come along, as that will be the new home for my Rohloff.

 

[flecc]

The problem with derailleur gears apart from the fact that they are so last century, is that on an Ebike with CD Drive is that you are never going to get the same gear range as what a triple Chain set and 9 Speed cassette provides.

You can, SRAM DualDrive, combining a hub gear to perform the triple chainring function with either 8, 9 or 10 sprocket cassette.

Link
.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Yep flecc, I forgot all bout the SRAM DualDrive, in fact my Son who is a bike tech, mentioned that they had just taken delivery of a new F/S Haibike Ebike for display in the showroom, and that had the SRAM DualDrive set up.

To be fair though such a set up, is still a compromise, worst of both worlds or best, depending on your point of view.

The bike is on at £3.5k, surely at that kind of money they could have dropped a Rohloff in and done the job properly.

 

[RobF]

The Rohloff's twist grip shifter doesn't provide fast or precise enough shifts for keen mountain bikers, which is why nearly all MTBs are rapid fire trigger shift.

I don't know about the Rohloff, but the Shimano Alfine gear hubs can give a false neutral when bounced around, which makes them unsuitable for mountain biking.

Not for nothing are internal gear hubs also known as touring hubs - they have many advantages on touring and city bikes, but are not suitable for every type of bike.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Everyone I know that has gone for a Rohloff, be it MTB XC, or Touring, have all said to a man, and woman for that matter, that they would never go back to the antiquaties of the Derailleur.

Fact is the derailleur set up keeps the business rolling in for the bike repair shops, the system is so fickle that once clogged up with mud it comes to a grinding halt.

Why would you run such an exposed gear system, when the benifits of an igh system are protected from the elements, it has to be a no brainer, unless you like spending lots of money in your local bike repair shop.

Having ridden a Rohloff equipped bike for over 13 years, I can assure you that the gear selection through the 14 gears is as quick and accurate as whatever is needed for any dicipline of riding.

I don't see Rapidfire being of any advantage unless linked to an igh in some way.

 

[Woosh]

Why would you run such an exposed gear system, when the benifits of an igh system are protected from the elements, it has to be a no brainer, unless you like spending lots of money in your local bike repair shop.

the obsession with weight, even on e-bikes, is what stops widespread use of IGH.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Another reason that Rohlhoffs are not used on proper MTBs is because the weight stops the suspension from working. the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass becomes too low. It's the same reason that hub-motors are no so good for full-suspension off-road bikes.

 

[Mac_user82]

I was looking into getting a Rohloff hub but decided against it because it was £1000 to get the hub and for that money, the amount of chains and sprockets you can buy is a lot

it would be nice to have the extra few gears but where i live i don't really need the extra few gear my gear ratio at the moment tackles anything i
need so I have no need to even looking at anything else.

when i was looking at buying Rolhoff hub the thing is it doesn't actually come maintenance free you still have to buy the oil to drain it all out and
replace it with fresh all which when googling online is a good tenner.

At the moment online i can buy a Cassette for my bike for £20 which
is not really a lot of money within five minutes i can change the cassette
if need to and also if i get a problem with my cassette i won't have to send it back to Rohloff to be inspected to what has happened to it

For some people because they drive which i don't they could cope
without a e-bike myself it is my wheels for getting around places and
if i did have a problem with a Rohloff hub then i wouldn't have a bike
to ride either because i live out in the sticks it is harder to get around
and i couldn't afford to have my bike off the road for to long

i think it's lot of money just to be able to change gear at the traffic lights and to have a bigger gear ratio which depending on your terrain
you might not even use

You would have to be doing some serious miles a year to warrant a Rohloff hub the average person i don't think they would get their money
back for it so it would be just cheaper in the longer run to stop with a chain and sprocket

 

[RobF]

Another reason that Rohlhoffs are not used on proper MTBs is because the weight stops the suspension from working. the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass becomes too low. It's the same reason that hub-motors are no so good for full-suspension off-road bikes.

Rohloff's weight argument is a Rohloff hub, chain and two chain rings weighs about the same as a cassette, derailer, longer chain, front mech, two shifters, and three front rings.

Works in some respects, but as you say it ignores weight distribution.

The Rohloff is a heavy lump, I picked one up in a bike shop and it felt at first as if it was stuck to the bench.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I can see some advantage from a Rohlhoff on a heavy touring bike (non-electric), but not on an electric bike for the road, where you just don't need that range of gears. I have a triple chainring on my bike, and we have some very steep hills around here. It's very rare for me to use anything other than the large chain-ring, so that's something like 300%.

I can also imagine that the Rohlhoff would be useful on a recumbent trike, but a normal derailleur setup is so much cheaper, more efficient and very reliable. All the arguments about mud go out the window. As I keep saying, I've not touched my derailleur gears in 3 years and 4000 miles. How can you improve on that?

 

[robwalley]

You can, SRAM DualDrive, combining a hub gear to perform the triple chainring function with either 8, 9 or 10 sprocket cassette.

Link
.

Just finishing my DualDrive3 Install today hopefully (from Rohloff). I'm using a 9 speed X5 rear with 11-28 cassette. Not necessarily permanent, depends on how it goes. I hope it's the best of both worlds - derailleur on the hill, IGH at the lights/junctions. Geared to ride in top(IGH) most of the time and drop down at the lights. Total range is 1.02 - 4.82 The torque from BBS02 (36v 500w) on a tourer should be fine. Fashioned 2 nice mini torque/anti turn bars from 2 flat 8mm spanners. Update later.

 

[Woosh]

d8veh, there is the benefit of low maintenance of the IGHs. Frayed shifter innercable, spongy outercable are common problems with derailleurs for no specific reason. It could be that is because the tension on the shifter cable is much higher with derailleurs. Plus, the derailleur can get bent and even into the spokes in some cases. IGH eliminates some and reduces considerably others.
I sell a number of bikes with Nexus-3 and Nexus-7 over the years. The number of times we service those IGHs can be counted on one hand, mainly replacing the whole wheel because the Shimano rollerbrakes are not good rather than the gear mechanism. We also have an SRAM automatix 2-speed IGH. It's nice but not enough gears.

 

[flecc]

Just finishing my DualDrive3 Install today hopefully (from Rohloff). I'm using a 9 speed X5 rear with 11-28 cassette. Not necessarily permanent, depends on how it goes. I hope it's the best of both worlds - derailleur on the hill, IGH at the lights/junctions. Geared to ride in top(IGH) most of the time and drop down at the lights. Total range is 1.02 - 4.82 The torque from BBS02 (36v 500w) on a tourer should be fine. Fashioned 2 nice mini torque/anti turn bars from 2 flat 8mm spanners. Update later.

It will be interesting to know how it fares over time Rob. Your intended usage combining stationary change and mobile change advantages isn't usually mentioned, but it seems to me a very sensible approach and unique to the DualDrive.
.

 

[robwalley]

It will be interesting to know how it fares over time Rob. Your intended usage combining stationary change and mobile change advantages isn't usually mentioned, but it seems to me a very sensible approach and unique to the DualDrive.
.

Sturmey have one too ( http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/cs-rk3-black ). Knowing Sturmey, it maybe more sturdy and has the advantage of using normal triple front cable pull distances, hence any compatible shifter, unlike SRAM DD3 which took me a while to figure out as I didn't buy a complete package and tried a X5 front shifter. Also SRAM stopped making them (last orders 3rd March) and parts are getting rare as hen's teeth already (black front shifter from Germany). I'll report back after a week or two.

 

[flecc]

Sturmey have one too ( http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/cs-rk3-black ). Knowing Sturmey, it maybe more sturdy and has the advantage of using normal triple front cable pull distances, hence any compatible shifter, unlike SRAM DD3 which took me a while to figure out as I didn't buy a complete package and tried a X5 front shifter. Also SRAM stopped making them (last orders 3rd March) and parts are getting rare as hen's teeth already (black front shifter from Germany). I'll report back after a week or two.

Thanks for the information Rob, I hadn't come across the Sturmey version and didn't know SRAM had ceased making the DD3.
.

 

[Rohloffboy]

As mac user mentions, the Rohloff oil does cost, as you need both Rinsing Oil and Hub oil.

I bought two of 1lt Rinsing oil tins and one of the 1lt Hub oil tins, total cost back in 2004 was £50 and will in theory give 40 years worth of oil changes for the Rohloff, only done 11 oil changes so far, so just another 29 years to go!

If your going for a Rohloff, don't bother with the little 25ml bottles of oil, they don't do the 1lt tins anymore, they have now moved onto plastic containers, think you can get 250ml, 750ml and 1lt, although prices are now around £100 for the 1lt container, still much better value than the 25ml bottles.