Hub Geared Electric Bikes - What Has Happened To Them?

[Simmo11]

I’m currently looking for an ebike & was really drawn to the hub geared bikes, something like the Kalkhoff Intergrale with an 8 speed alfine hub & carbon drive belt. I can understand the problems with drive belt replacement, but are the hub geared bikes not up to the stresses put on them by the crank motors?

 

[sjpt]

We have the Raleigh Motus hub gear. I suspect that if we rode it really hard on turbo that the gears might well have problems fairly soon. (Ours is the Nexus 7, which is apparently inferior to the 8 speed ones). However, we rarely use it above tour, and sometimes sport on the hills, and don't push that hard. So the power going through the gears is probably no more than many younger, fitter people would apply without assist. I think that we are the expected market for that kind of bicycle.

If you want to drive a hub hard probably worth getting a Rohloff. I understand Shimano are also producing (or working on???) e-bike specific hub gears with more robust construction.

 

[KirstinS]

I'm on 9000miles with a bbs02 and afline 8 combo.

And that's on a hardtail which I hammer on south downs

Works perfectly as far as I'm concerned

 

[Andy-Mat]

I’m currently looking for an ebike & was really drawn to the hub geared bikes, something like the Kalkhoff Inergrale with an 8 speed alfine hub & carbon drive belt. I can understand the problems with drive belt replacement, but are the hub geared bikes not up to the stresses put on them by the crank motors?

I have no actual data to draw from, but using one transmission path for both muscle and motor power has always struck me as being suspect, particularly with regard to accelerated wear and tear caused to chain and sprockets.
Plus, as someone recently pointed out on Pedelec (someone with a Bosch middle motor), when his goes wrong (its new and has gone wrong many times), he usually has to walk home, as he gets no motor power or pedal power getting to the rear wheel.
Which is why I personally prefer a hub motor, front or back wheel, and separate gear and chain drive or similar.
A rear hub motor probably precludes a hub gearbox though (Guessing only).
With regard to hub gears, apparently they do require far more maintenance (going from a recent topic here), which I find strange, as Sturmey archer gears that I had as a kid, just worked, with the addition of a few drops of oil, year in year out! It appears that we are going backwards in some areas.....
My preference, which brought no problems to do with either gears or motor, on 2 e-bikes, over now more than 8 years of e-bike riding, was Derailleur type gears from Shimano (both 21 gears), and a rear wheel hub motor.
Easy to clean and lubricate. I had to change the cassette on the first bike after 6 years of heavy usage! Under 20 UK Pounds.....Plus two chains, cheap on ebay.
I can see the point of having a front wheel motor instead, but only tried one once myself, as puncture repair is possibly to my mind, made easier.....guessing only.
But a front wheel motor would also make it easier for you to have hub gears at the back, if you are set on them!
Just a few thoughts!
regards and do have a great day
Andy

 

[soundwave]

 

[sjpt]

Crank drive does increase the stress on the drive train. This is much less important with hub gears, as it uses a wider more robust chain that always has a straight chainline, and sprockets that are designed for strength rather the for quick shifting.

Maintenance on the Shimano hubs is a bit of an issue ... I'm wondering whether to do anything to mine, and if so what. It must be about 3 years old now; 1500 miles. Interested what KirstinS has done on that. Rohloffs are much more like the old Sturmey Archer for maintenance.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Crank drive does increase the stress on the drive train. This is much less important with hub gears, as it uses a wider more robust chain that always has a straight chainline, and sprockets that are designed for strength rather the for quick shifting.

Maintenance on the Shimano hubs is a bit of an issue ... I'm wondering whether to do anything to mine, and if so what. It must be about 3 years old now; 1500 miles. Interested what KirstinS has done on that. Rohloffs are much more like the old Sturmey Archer for maintenance.

The Shimano Gears that I have used, have needed very little money or time, to keep running well, the first one had about 18,000 KMs on it, before I changed the cassette! I gave the bike away still in full running order, with the original battery still almost as good as new.....
Plus the work is IMHO easy on such types of gears, and if I didn't know exactly what to do, YouTube was there to help!!
It really wasn't Rocket Science.
I have never taken (or needed to up to now) a hub gear assembly apart....though I only ever had Sturmey Archer.....Years ago!!
Swiss watch training may help possibly!
regards
Andy

 

[KirstinS]

Crank drive does increase the stress on the drive train. This is much less important with hub gears, as it uses a wider more robust chain that always has a straight chainline, and sprockets that are designed for strength rather the for quick shifting.

Maintenance on the Shimano hubs is a bit of an issue ... I'm wondering whether to do anything to mine, and if so what. It must be about 3 years old now; 1500 miles. Interested what KirstinS has done on that. Rohloffs are much more like the old Sturmey Archer for maintenance.

I do nothing whatsoever !!

 

[sjpt]

I do nothing whatsoever !!

How long have you had it (time/miles)?

 

[KirstinS]

How long have you had it (time/miles)?

Around 10k miles and around 3 years

My last one went for 7 years and the failure in the shifting mechanism. Inside the actual gear mechanisms were spot on. I bought a new hub for about 70 quid and got my lbs to swap out the internals into the old casing......so save building a new wheel

 

[sjpt]

Around 10k miles and around 3 years

My last one went for 7 years and the failure in the shifting mechanism. Inside the actual gear mechanisms were spot on. I bought a new hub for about 70 quid and got my lbs to swap out the internals into the old casing......so save building a new wheel

Excellent, thank you. Nothing sounds exactly what I like doing when it comes to things like that.

 

[KirstinS]

Excellent, thank you. Nothing sounds exactly what I like doing when it comes to things like that.

Tbh that's why I love the alfine 8. Bullet proof and maintenance free

Though shimano would disagree with my approach of course. And several members will be disgusted at the lack of maintenance I'm sure!

 

[flecc]

I do nothing whatsoever !!

Ditto. I never service anything, just use.
.

 

[Nealh]

With the Alfine the grease can dry out a bit the cheapest answer is to syringe max 25ml of auto transmission fluid in to the lhs side, this mixes with and softens the shimano grease.

 

[nigelbb]

I rather like the fact that most of the time with a front hub drive you can just leave the bike in top gear & let the motor assist you without buggering about changing gears.

 

[eddymunster]

I run alfine 8, its done about 3000miles with a bbs02 750w mid drive and had no issues so far. Shimano state in the spec it's suitable for ebike use but I think we are only talking 350 watts here.

 

[50Hertz]

Just use and forget. The Alfine 8 needs no maintenance.

 

[vfr400]

I'm on 9000miles with a bbs02 and afline 8 combo.

And that's on a hardtail which I hammer on south downs

Works perfectly as far as I'm concerned

That's a lot of miles, Kirstin. Just as a matter of interest, do you know how many chains, sprockets, etc you got through doing those miles? It would be interesting to get some actual facts from an unbiased source.

 

[KirstinS]

That's a lot of miles, Kirstin. Just as a matter of interest, do you know how many chains, sprockets, etc you got through doing those miles? It would be interesting to get some actual facts from an unbiased source.

Hmm 3 sprockets at a tenner each and 3 chains at various prices but all under 15 quid. Still on same bling ring which has done all but a few hundred of the miles

one chain and sprocket was destroyed in an ill advised 3 miles jaunt on the sand when there was a super low tide

Oh and two jockey wheels for the alfine chain tensioner. Originals were plastic but replaced with cnc aluminum and ceramic bearings. They cost a bit less than a tenner.

Works out at about 70 total or well under a penny per mile. Pretty insignificant compared to brake pads/bleeds and battery costs