How many people are using there e-bike off-road?

[EddiePJ]

Will, before you buy a mudguard, I could always copy the shape of one of mine onto a piece of paper and then pop in the post for you to try before you buy. Just drop me a pm with your address details if you fancy that idea.

Subject to having the bike in time, I'd be doing the longer route. I've found that the shorter routes on an e-mtb, are over way too soon. The last Evans ride that I completed, was 29 miles long and the battery died after 12 miles, which left me 17 miles to pedal with no battery. Over that 12 miles, I had got far enough ahead, that only two people got past me, and my time was third fastest of the day, out of 274 riders that had completed the same route.
I also did a Wiggle ride in the summer with a mate on a pedal only mtb, and being truthful it was pretty boring having to ride at his pace on the up hill sections, or having to wait at the top. It isn't until you do something like that, that you realise just what an advantage an e-mtb has over a pedal bike. I've found that the advantage though is lost when it comes to making swift progress down hill or on levelish sections. The agility and lack of weight of a pedal only mtb makes a massive difference. I have to say that my pedal only KTM Ultra, is brilliant for fast down hill. I don't think that I want to pedal up either Crockam or Titsey hill though, and they are bad enough in a motor!

Just one further thing to add about any of the organised rides, is that if you happen to have a dongle fitted, then you won't be able to enter and ride, so watch out for that one.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Martin - no problem. Good service should be standard. Exceptional service is worth shouting about, so thank you!

Eddie - Cheers for the suggestions on the mudguards, it is actually something that I've been looking at. The Full-suss Haibike Xduro models have a weird cut-out on the rear seat-stay, which allows muck to be flung against the shock. Only gripe I have with the bike.

Hi William,

No problem at all, thanks for the lovely feedback
BTW - I do have mucky nutz fenders here, Ill sort you one out if you remind me when you come to pick up your other bike soon.

Regards
Martin

 

[EddiePJ]

Not many hours to go until the next organised ride.

http://www.evanscycles.com/pages/rideit-biggin-hill-mtb-ride-1st-november-2014

I'm down for riding the long route, and whilst I don't think the terrain is going to be particularly exciting or taxing, it should still prove to be a fun ride, and great way to try the new bike out.

The KTM is as prepped as it is ever going to be.

And already sporting new tyres. Original shown above the new WTB Vigilante TCS.

I have even managed to declutter my old and trusty CamelBak Rogue.
I hadn't realised that I had been carrying so much around with me.

Much tidier, although I do need to buy a spare rear mech hanger. I also wouldn't normally take three sets of levers with me, but fitting the new tyres had them bent almost double! They were a real pig to fit, and I'm not taking any chances.

 

[William Tell]

Hi Eddie,

Sorry for the inactivity on the forum, the last 2 weeks have been really busy.

Cheers also for the template offer for mudguards, in the meantime I did have a look at Mucky Nutz at Martin's shop, they weren't going to do the trick. No biggie.

Glad to hear you got your bike in time, my mate and I have decided at the last minute (4pm today) to also do the Evans ride tomorrow. Aiming for the long route, but as we left it so late we'll be milling around the registration area.

Hope to get a entry sorted early, and to spot you in the crowd! Your new bike looks sweet, they did a good job of making it look "light and nimble" and like a normal bike.

It'll be my first organized event, and my mate has a normal bike so we'll just be taking it slow. If I like this one I'll definitely be keen on joining up with you for some swifter progress

Right - from your pics you're clearly much more organized than I am at this stage, better get cracking! If I don't see you for some reason have a great ride! PM your number if you did want to try and meet up beforehand, we're aiming to be there around 07h30 to try and get registrations sorted as soon as they open.

 

[EddiePJ]

Sounds good William.

Main thing is not to forget your helmet. You won't be able to ride if you don't have it.

It would be good to meet you and chat about future rides etc as well. I'll PM you my number.

I would imagine that you might well be there bit before me, but not by much.

 

[EddiePJ]

Right, sitting here with a glass of St Austell Tribute to finish of the day, here a brief insight into today's e-mtb ride.

The day started at a not too early 7.30am, and almost empty car park. That seems the norm for Evans rides, but the Wiggle events are pretty much rammed solid by that time of day in relation to parking. William arrived bang on time and it was good to finally get to meet up.
There was bit of wait to sign in, but there again, we were early.
This out of the way, and with the final checks to the bike carried out, it was off to queue up to start.
It happened that whilst waiting, we got talking to three lads on very nice KTM pedal mtb's. One Ultra 1964 which was the same as mine, but with more very nice touches to it, and two Aera Comps or Myroons. Not sure which though. Obviously banter about the bikes ensued from there on in, and I ended up tagging along with the lads for the duration of the ride. From the point of view of banter and laughs, it was the best ride to date!

Note the new KTM hydration pack. Shame that I have only just recently purchased a new Camelbak, or I would have been very tempted to get one myself.

The weather had looked a bit iffy prior to the start, but wearing short sleeve shirt had been a wise move, as the day progressed to be very warm and sunny.

From an e-mtb point of view, the route certainly wasn't taxing, and for me, there were too many road sections. I had had high hopes of seeing some nice views during the ride, but was very disappointed in that respect. In truth the route was not special at all, with nothing technical or fast flowing. There were a few reasonable sections for speed, and I clocked just over 35mph at one fleeting point, but there were just too many slower riders, horses and walkers, to make for any consistent progress.
Whilst I'd ride the route again next year as an organised group, I'd certainly not bother on my own. It was still well worth the £17.00 though, so all is good.

The bike was superb and I can't find anything to fault about it in any respect. I have a feeling that I am just starting a voyage fantastic relationship with this bike. It is brilliantly fast, accurate and planted, brakes superbly, and although my time on it has so far been very short, I can find no ill traits with it, and I'm half tempted to give it the nick name B-52.

I'm also very impressed with chosen tyre choice. Okay the bike sounds like a Landrover on SATS when on the road, but the confidence that these tyres give, seem to marry perfectly with the bike, and I suspect that these tyres are soon to be a firm favourite with me.

Riding with the three pedal only lads, I rode the bike mainly in non assist, eco mode, and the odd blast of turbo for the benefit of the gopro that one of the guys had.
This is how the battery level looked after the ride, which according to Strava, was 32.3miles. I'm happy with this, although I still don't like the size of the Nyon display. Bosch have made it far too big for off road use. I'd prefer, the smaller the better.

I was also pleasantly surprised to find that the bike rides very well in non assist mode, and hides the extra weight of the battery and motor very well.
The Bosch performance line motor is reasonably quiet, and certainly not like classic as fitted to the old bike.

Finally, comments from other riders. Today was a pleasant surprise with absolutely no negative comments at all. Most of the interest and comments focussed more on four KTM's being out in a group.

Below, not a KTM rider.

Back home.

And finally, the early stages of cleaning the bike back up to the condition, that it will be kept in.

 

[William Tell]

Great write-up Eddie, and some cracking photo's!

We were never going to keep up with you, think we did it in roughly 4h30.
Glad you didn't have any more issues.

Was a good day out, and I will be entering a few more of these events in the future in-between the usual trail center rides. Thanks for suggesting this one!

My riding buddy got the last laugh in the end, as I ran out of juice about 4km from the finish (final last uphill road section). I'll blame a combination of my fitness, and my 180mm 23kg monstrosity

I must add that up to that stage I probably waited close to a combined 15 minutes for him on all the other bits!

Like you said had only good banter on-route, also let a few blokes try out the bike and their smiles when they experienced it for the first time is always worth it.

Clean-up will commence tomorrow, thickest layer of mud yet on the Haibike

 

[William Tell]

Eddie - almost forgot.

Can you tell me how many teeth your front sprocket has?

I couldn't really do the big grassy climb in echo, it feels like it's geared way too long. Riding it like that feels like I'm stressing the chain too much.

I'd love to just be able to "eco" most of the ride, as it gives a really good balance between exercise and assistance.

Cheers!

 

[RobF]

This illustrates the difficulty of predicting range.

One guy gets round with plenty of battery to spare, another conks out with more than a mile to go.

Same battery, same-ish motor.

 

[EddiePJ]

Thankfully I believe the days of owning an unreliable bike (the BH) are now over.

My ride today was a bit of a challenge to myself in respect of the battery. Some of the rides can be up to 50 miles, and I wanted to see how I would have to pace myself. A couple of the hills were still hard work in eco, but I think that mental outlook also has much to do with it. I learnt a long time ago that if I felt defeated at the bottom of a climb, then I didn't stand a hope in hell as I went up. The climb that did surprise me in eco, was the very long drag up the tarmac road (Titsey Hill) That was seemingly effortless in eco mode, but I had a bit of determination to do it, and placed my attention towards the side of road, rather than in front, just so that I couldn't see how far was left to go.
I'll check the sprocket size for you tomorrow. This company do quite a selection. http://www.connexchain.com/en/bike-chain.html The chains look a work of art. Beautiful. I must admit that spinning out at about 25mph would quickly become annoying if I were to use my bike on the road for any length of time, and that is where I struggled to keep up with the other lads today.

Running out of battery is no discredit or reflection upon yourself or the bike though.
I've been there with that one on the BH, and it's not a nice experience trying to eek the last little bit out. I have to say the KTM is incredibly easy to ride in non assist mode, but so it should be with such a small front sprocket.

I'm really glad that you enjoyed the day, and I can only apologize for not having spent more time with you.

In relation to the cleaning, I'll be honest and say that whilst my bikes have been muddier, I haven't experienced mud with that sticking power. It just didn't want to budge!

 

[EddiePJ]

Hi William,

The front sprocket has 15 teeth. The cassette is 11-36 ten speed.
I'd be interested to hear what your bike is currently fitted with.

Ref the grassy climb. Although I was in eco climbing it, I was also in the lowest gear. On a climb Iike that, I would imagine that there would have been a one gear jump per power setting. Thinking about you running out of power, your mistake was letting others try the bike out. It's a lovely gesture, but the priority is always going to be to finish the ride, and letting others try the bike out during a ride isn't perhaps the best way to achieve that. It's quite a fine balance when it comes to making the battery last. You can't take it for granted that the rides are ever going to be the length as stated. They can often be several miles out. One ride myself and others rode 5 miles in the wrong direction, so instantly that was an extra ten miles. That was also the day that I got wrecked three inner tubes, and couldn't finish anyway. I try to gauge battery use by the water/food stops. Sometimes they can be much further than stated, but assuming that the first stop is 17 miles in to a 30 mile ride, and you reach it with over half of the battery left, then you have a reasonably safe leeway. Within reason, I also try to ride with no assist as much as possible, or at least for the first half of the ride. Clearly you won't win medals for speed, but it helps wit saving battery life.

The bike is all clean again, and with extreme reluctance I have decided to fit the rear mudguard, and crud catcher to help protect the battery area. Yes I know that it is mounted upside down, and this was intentional. There goes the bikes good looks for while.

I have also just ordered up the first spares for bike. A couple of sets of resin brake pads, and a pin set. I like to carry a spare set with me, just in case. Neither take up much room, and could save the day..

 

[William Tell]

Thanks for the info Eddie.

My rear is also a 10-speed 11-36.
Front is a 16 tooth sprocket though.

A Bosch 15 tooth sprocket is only £14 from E-bikeshop, I'll check with Martin how much of a difference it'll really make. Might be bigger than I think, as the front sprocket turns 2.5x faster than the cranks due to the internal gearing on the Bosch system.

Once I've worn out my cassette I'll probably go for a 1x11 setup one day as well.

I know what you mean, but to be honest most of my lack of range is still a lot down to endurance fitness. With a crank assisted bike - the more you put in, the more it gives back. Will get there though!

On some other days out I usually let people even play with "Sport" and "Turbo" modes, but didn't on this particular ride.

I do wonder though just how much more power is theoretically required with the difference in the weights between our setups. My guess is I have a good 15-20kg in total over you.

Surely that's worth a few watts over a 1000m climb...
Purely wondering on a physics level, I know I'm a lazy git and the above has little to do with it

I'm thinking of doing the following ride before winter properly sets in:

http://www.ukcyclingevents.co.uk/events/wiggle-purbeck-hill-a-saurus-mtb/

Looks to be fairly scenic, and I'd like to see how the Wiggle rides compares to the Evans ones.

Need to start to look at some pads as well. Was the first time where I actually smelled other peoples brakes going down some of those steep downhills!

 

[MikeRo]

Thanks for the info Eddie.

My rear is also a 10-speed 11-36.
Front is a 16 tooth sprocket though.

A Bosch 15 tooth sprocket is only £14 from E-bikeshop, I'll check with Martin how much of a difference it'll really make.
I do wonder though just how much more power is theoretically required with the difference in the weights between our setups. My guess is I have a good 15-20kg in total over you.

Surely that's worth a few watts over a 1000m climb...
Purely wondering on a physics level, I know I'm a lazy git and the above has little to do with it

I'm thinking of doing the following ride before winter properly sets in:

http://www.ukcyclingevents.co.uk/events/wiggle-purbeck-hill-a-saurus-mtb/

Looks to be fairly scenic, and I'd like to see how the Wiggle rides compares to the Evans ones.

Need to start to look at some pads as well. Was the first time where I actually smelled other peoples brakes going down some of those steep downhills!

Sprocket change will make a difference of 1/16 or approx 6%...

The change in potential energy in raising 20kg over 1000m is 20x9.81x1000 J or 55Wh. That would need 100% efficiency which you can't get near, so you're right its a significant effect on your battery range!

 

[EddiePJ]

William, I've also been thinking of doing Purbeck, but right at this moment a round trip of some 280 miles in my bloody great van has been holding me back.
I'll probably still end up doing it though, and I'm definitely going to do the Fallen Leaves. I did the summer event there, and it has some nice down hill sections. A bit too much road work again for me, but nothing like the Evans ride.

 

[RobF]

Need to start to look at some pads as well. Was the first time where I actually smelled other peoples brakes going down some of those steep downhills!

There's a downhill technique to keep brake temperatures down.

Let the bike go as fast as you dare, then using both brakes haul it back to a fair bit slower than you want, and repeat.

Much better than 'riding' the brakes, which builds up more heat.

Obviously, the technique needs to be applied to the conditions, not slavishly, but it is effective.

 

[SRS]

William, I've also been thinking of doing Purbeck, but right at this moment a round trip of some 280 miles in my bloody great van has been holding me back.
I'll probably still end up doing though, and I'm definitely going to do the Fallen Leaves. I did the summer event there, and it has some nice down hill sections. A bit too much road work again for me, but nothing like the Evans ride.

Eddie

Might see you there if you go.

I've booked onto the event, staying in the campsite for a fews days and exploring the area by bike.

Recently purchased a Camber Evo, so shall be taking that and not my e-bike.

I did the ride on my own out of Poole, I think, last year. Did it clockwise. Some spectacular views when you reach the top.

Just hope the weather is kind.

 

[EddiePJ]

It would certainly be a stunning area to explore. I had thought of making it a family weekend, but my better half has to work.

The Camber Evo certainly looks a very nice bike.

 

[SRS]

It would certainly be a stunning area to explore. I had thought of making it a family weekend, but my better half has to work.

The Camber Evo certainly looks a very nice bike.

OOPs, I've not told my better half I am going yet.

I'd better mention it, they may like to come along.

Pleased with the Camber, have had several longish rides. Bar geometry needs to change slightly but otherwise its great.

Haibike is in need of some TLC.
Further to my dog accident a while ago, bars and stem are still bent. Must get some new ones on order.

Shall get those sorted, add some new tyres and hopefully we can meet up for a local rude.

 

[TinKitten]

OOPs, I've not old my better half I am going yet.

It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission eh?

 

[EddiePJ]

SRS, I'm ha

Eddie

Might see you there if you go.

Booked it up.

Make sure that you have the kettle on for when I arrive.