Simply using decent lights is all I want to see on other users bikes in poor light conditions not fancy colour clothing.
how drivers see you based on the clothes you wear.
- Thread starter trevor brooker
- Start date
Only just seen this posting. Very interesting. I am continually amazed at the number of cycling clubs that use black outfits.
I am not convinced that green is any good in daytime as it blends with all the road side greenery when in the countryside. I always wear yellow hi viz.
I am not convinced that green is any good in daytime as it blends with all the road side greenery when in the countryside. I always wear yellow hi viz.
Another thought goes through my mind.
Some years ago there was an advert running on TV called "think bike" and showed a car driver pulling out of a side turning having not noticed the motorcyclist approaching. My comment was always, "where is the motorcyclist's hi viz jacket and headlamp" He was dressed in black. I think those on 2 wheels should take some responsibility for their safety and at least try to make themselves visible.
Some years ago there was an advert running on TV called "think bike" and showed a car driver pulling out of a side turning having not noticed the motorcyclist approaching. My comment was always, "where is the motorcyclist's hi viz jacket and headlamp" He was dressed in black. I think those on 2 wheels should take some responsibility for their safety and at least try to make themselves visible.
This is a load of victim blaming nonsense.
Would you say to a girl she was asking for it if she wore a short skirt? No, you wouldn't.
Car drivers need to slow down, drive to the speed of the conditions and be alert, not looking at Facebook and writing What'sApp messages.
Would you say to a girl she was asking for it if she wore a short skirt? No, you wouldn't.
Car drivers need to slow down, drive to the speed of the conditions and be alert, not looking at Facebook and writing What'sApp messages.
Problem with this philosophy is that you may be right.
No good if you end up dead right
The trouble is we have everything on its head in this country. Wearing high vis as a kind of "PPE" is the least effective way of reducing risk. You don't see people in the Netherlands going around in hi-vis on their bikes, because they eliminate the risk as much as possible by putting in the right infrastructure that is people centred and they are proactive, not reactive. Here we focus our infrastructure on the privileged who own cars, people are way down the line of consideration and we only act when enough people have died to prove a point that something is dangerous.
The answer to that then would be to eliminate cars, bikes, power tools and confine everyone to bed. Oh, and ban electric blankets.
Isn't camouflage a greeny colour?
I'm reminded of the Bernard Manning joke of wearing a white hat, white coat and trousers and on a white bike. Got knock down by a snow plough.
I'm reminded of the Bernard Manning joke of wearing a white hat, white coat and trousers and on a white bike. Got knock down by a snow plough.
No, it's about the reasonable balance of risk. If we practically have to mandate that people on bikes need to dress up like Christmas trees, just so that vehicle drivers don't run them over, it tells me we've got it wrong in this country. There are a lot of problems that could be solved by getting more people cycling. But, if we treat people on bikes like this and we don't make a reasonably safe environment for them, it isn't going to happen.
The issue is not one of target conspicuity.
The issue is one of poor viewing skills and discipline by observers. You could be on fire while Elvis and lord Lucan valiantly battle to save you and you would be no more visible to the average driver with mediocre observation skills.
The biggest single study into hi vis with the biggest single participation pool was the forerunner to the Highways Agency. Going back a while when florries were made mandatory for road workers there was no corresponding reduction in casualties. Not even a slight one.
Ever wonder why mountain rescue wear red? Its because in the rural environment a fluorescent garment shows up very poorly against a green background and can actually camouflage the wearer. Similarly, Lowland Rescue wear a mix of orange and yellow florrie because in the urban environment a regular florrie becomes part of the visual clutter, and can actually have a pschological camouflage effect.
Perception is the biggest problem. Thinking that being clad from head to toe makes you more visible is a real issue and can lead to risky behaviour - not only does it universally not make you more conspicuous, but its also now fairly well understood that conspicuity is not the problem in the first place. "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" actually means, "sorry mate, I wasn't looking properly".
A rider would be a fool to actually camouflage themselves and wear all black at night, or all light grey in the fog, but they'd be equally foolish to believe that a suit of fluoresent armour realistically makes them less likely to be run over by a driver with poor observation discipline.
As WheezyRider correctly points out, this sort of thing is a victim blaming attitude. Society and the police no longer tell women not to go out at night to avoid being a victim of crime, and society should not be pressuring cyclists to dress up to avoid being the victim of road crime, particularly as there is little evidence that it reduces casualty rates anyway.
Instead of slapping band aids on the symptoms, we should be treating the disease.
The issue is one of poor viewing skills and discipline by observers. You could be on fire while Elvis and lord Lucan valiantly battle to save you and you would be no more visible to the average driver with mediocre observation skills.
The biggest single study into hi vis with the biggest single participation pool was the forerunner to the Highways Agency. Going back a while when florries were made mandatory for road workers there was no corresponding reduction in casualties. Not even a slight one.
Ever wonder why mountain rescue wear red? Its because in the rural environment a fluorescent garment shows up very poorly against a green background and can actually camouflage the wearer. Similarly, Lowland Rescue wear a mix of orange and yellow florrie because in the urban environment a regular florrie becomes part of the visual clutter, and can actually have a pschological camouflage effect.
Perception is the biggest problem. Thinking that being clad from head to toe makes you more visible is a real issue and can lead to risky behaviour - not only does it universally not make you more conspicuous, but its also now fairly well understood that conspicuity is not the problem in the first place. "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" actually means, "sorry mate, I wasn't looking properly".
A rider would be a fool to actually camouflage themselves and wear all black at night, or all light grey in the fog, but they'd be equally foolish to believe that a suit of fluoresent armour realistically makes them less likely to be run over by a driver with poor observation discipline.
As WheezyRider correctly points out, this sort of thing is a victim blaming attitude. Society and the police no longer tell women not to go out at night to avoid being a victim of crime, and society should not be pressuring cyclists to dress up to avoid being the victim of road crime, particularly as there is little evidence that it reduces casualty rates anyway.
Instead of slapping band aids on the symptoms, we should be treating the disease.
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for The most part I agree with Ed that it’s a driver education issue but when I’m out riding I see hi vis riders a lot sooner than the idiots who wear black.
I wouldn’t go riding in dark clothing any more than I’d stick my hand in a tank of Piranhas without thick gloves
I wouldn’t go riding in dark clothing any more than I’d stick my hand in a tank of Piranhas without thick gloves
The SMIDSY cop out is a good shout and is purely down to very poor driving and possibly bad drivers eyesight who shouldn't even be driving without correct specs.
A lot of drivers we all can see where we live simply drive too fast approaching and manoeuvring at junctions, most now think their reactions and braking are so good and only willing to use them at the last moment.
There is a roundabout near my house and every time I approach it and enter it on my bike, I see it nearly every time esp from the LHS as cars just don't want to stop or take more care because they see a push bike and don't want to be inconvenienced for a few seconds. They always get a glare and a shake of the head from me, more so when up the road a 75yds is light controlled ped crossing which will slow them down even more when activated.
A lot of drivers we all can see where we live simply drive too fast approaching and manoeuvring at junctions, most now think their reactions and braking are so good and only willing to use them at the last moment.
There is a roundabout near my house and every time I approach it and enter it on my bike, I see it nearly every time esp from the LHS as cars just don't want to stop or take more care because they see a push bike and don't want to be inconvenienced for a few seconds. They always get a glare and a shake of the head from me, more so when up the road a 75yds is light controlled ped crossing which will slow them down even more when activated.
I see it as a question of reducing risk.
It would be wonderful if we lived with cyclists and motor vehicles separated. Unfortunately, that is not the real world, certainly not around here.
As both cyclist and car driver, I realise there can be circumstances when a cyclist can be difficult to see, mostly because they blend with the background. Much better to try to make yourself as visible as possible. That way you are helping protect yourself.
Obviously, that will not help against the idiots who just have to be in front or just not looking.
But you are reducing risk to yourself.
No good laying in an ambulance on the way to hospital saying "it was somebody else's fault".
Think about it. As a car driver, you switch on headlights in daylight when it rains (well some do) not so that you can see where to go but so that other drivers can more easily see you. As stated, not all drivers do this but prefer to think, "I can see where I am going, it is up to other drivers to see me. It is not my fault."
Just to clarify, this is not a victim blaming attitude, simply a question of trying to reduce risk.
It would be wonderful if we lived with cyclists and motor vehicles separated. Unfortunately, that is not the real world, certainly not around here.
As both cyclist and car driver, I realise there can be circumstances when a cyclist can be difficult to see, mostly because they blend with the background. Much better to try to make yourself as visible as possible. That way you are helping protect yourself.
Obviously, that will not help against the idiots who just have to be in front or just not looking.
But you are reducing risk to yourself.
No good laying in an ambulance on the way to hospital saying "it was somebody else's fault".
Think about it. As a car driver, you switch on headlights in daylight when it rains (well some do) not so that you can see where to go but so that other drivers can more easily see you. As stated, not all drivers do this but prefer to think, "I can see where I am going, it is up to other drivers to see me. It is not my fault."
Just to clarify, this is not a victim blaming attitude, simply a question of trying to reduce risk.
D
Deleted member 33385
Guest
I haven't ridden on busy roads for many years, haven't ridden a bike at all in fact since the 80s, so it is with great trepidation that I do so again. At my age, I can't afford to be hit by a metal box travelling at any speed. Texting, using a phone while driving seems to be done a lot! I almost got run over as a pedestrian crossing a car park on a retail park by a driver who had just exited the petrol station - he wasn't even looking at the road! He was texting with one hand under the dash, while steering with the other and not looking ahead AT ALL. I've ordered some bright yellow high visibility clothing which will arrive today, but that won't protect me from idiots like that. I'm seriously considering getting some mototcyle and BMX gear: elbow guards, kneepads, some sort of spine guard... Anyone have any ideas of what sort of kit I could get to minimise injuries, when hit by a car, driven by a texting moron driver?
I ride motorbikes too, there's no reason you couldn't go into the shop and buy a lightweight armoured motorbike jacket with back, shoulder and elbow protection and wear that while cycling. In fact it's probably a good idea, downside is you'll get hot wearing it tho. Check out Helmet City, it's a great shop for motorbike gear if there's one local to you. Or online mail order look at www.Sportsbikeshop.co.uk
They are 10/10 for service, with free returns if sizing is wrong and the best prices too. Used them many times, highly rate them.
The best thing I've done to minimise worry when cycling on the road was to buy a decent rear viewing mirror. You can easily see when an approaching car is gonna pass close, and it gives you a second or two, to move over a bit to create more gap if they are passing too close for comfort.
I added reflective strips to my rear rack to help drivers see me. My light is attached to my seat post.
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Totally agree with these comments.
When I drive my car I find yellow to be the best colour for me to spot cyclists and so I wear yellow when on my bike. Others may find differently, which means yellow may not be best? How does colour blindness have any effect on this I wonder?
In my experience, things have got a lot lot worse on the roads in recent years. People are so impatient and generally angry and you are just in their way. In the last couple of years I've had verbal abuse, deliberate swerving at me while overtaking, things thrown at me by passengers etc, etc...and then there is the general lack of attention to the job in hand by a significant number of drivers.
I wear a yellow vest, but it often seems like an invisibility cloak.
D
Deleted member 33385
Guest
I got an impressively bright light the other day, your (hopefully not!) landing strips are a good idea, I'll have to add them:
The yellow cloth is an unused high visibility vest (over a waterproof rucksack cover) to conceal my ebike's true nature...
I knew a colourblind artist once... bright yellow is an unremarkable grey.
Thank you, I'll get lightweight motorbike robocopped - the rear view mirror is a great idea I hadn't considered, I've ordered one which attaches to the end of my right handlebar, to see if it's a useful design which reveals enough about potential dangers lurking behind me... I don't have a lot of room on my handlebars at the moment or I would have gone for something else.
Aaaarrrgghh the yellow high viz jacket with reflective strips I ordered arrived without reflective strips! Return and refund!
If people are distracted texting while driving, maybe I need an insanely loud horn to wake them from their phonedream? Any recommendations on extremely horns? Maybe I can plumb it into the battery or controller.
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