How do I choose - Ezee/Powacycle/Wisper?

[gr1mb0]

Hi all. I'm hoping soon to become an owner of an electric bike, but am having trouble deciding what to buy - can you help - the specs and prices seem to vary wildly?

I like the look and feel of a mountain bike, and hope to get one which I can cycle 'normally' when I need to - so not too heavy. My likely use is 16 mile (each way) fairly flat commute from Sutton to Canary Wharf -- but it would be nice to think I could take into into the New Forest at the weekend (too much to ask?).

My style preference is leading me to consider the Ezee Torq, Powacycle Salisbury and Giant Suede (by existing MTB being a Giant Terrago). I hear Schwinn are doing things in this space too - but can't find a UK dealer with stock, and I like the look of the Wisper 905e but am wary of the comparison with the Torq made elsehwhere in these pages.

Is there really £600-worth of value added in the Torq vs. Giant/Powacycle (at £599 each)? What would I be paying the extra for?

And as you can't get detailed specs for the components of each of the bikes - how can I make a value based decision between similar priced bikes e.g. Salisbury v. Suede or Torq v Wisper 905e?

Lastly - with most makes being single supplier, is it possible to haggle on price or accessories?

Hope you can help me -- many thanks for your time.

 

[flecc]

The Salisbury is quite low powered, not as fast as it looks. It will climb average hills ok, but with peak power in the 270 to 300 watt region it won't set the pulse racing.

The Whisper is not a Torq by any standard as you seem to suspect. It's standard equipment is bottom of the market and the same as that on on the £495/£595 Salisbury, for example the basic 6 speed derailleur, so you must judge it's value based on that. I haven't tried it but it's 36 volt motor is probably middle of the range amongst those, more powerful than the 24 volt Salisbury system.

The Torq is upmarket in many ways, for example the Shimano Sora close-ratio fast-changing 8 speed derailleur set is typical of the equipment. It's very powerful, but the motor is geared for speed. The main thing to consider with it is whether the hill climbing will suit you. For flatter country with some moderate hills it's superb, and if you are a quite powerful rider, it can suit with some steeper hills up to 12 to 14%. If your area is almost all hills and some of them very steep, beware if you aren't a very powerful rider. Changing the gearing can help in marginal situations. That said, with hills that you and the bike can cope with, it will climb them faster than anything else. As ever a trial in appropriate territory is best.

Haggling can be tried, but I think it won't be possible to get a reduction, only the Whisper using bidding, though it's start price is high anyway.
.

 

[gr1mb0]

Thanks for the rapid response Flecc.

Similar prices not reflecting similar specs is at the heart of my dilemma, given that it is is hard to get details from websites of the exact components used... seems not to be a problem with standard bikes (e.g. manufacturers all keen to detail which gear set, v-brake or forks they use).

The inference may be that some suppliers are taking advantage of this relatively new market and charging a premium price for a not very premium product...

It looks like I may have no alternative but to save the extra pennies for the Torq unless there's anything imminent in the market.... do new bikes tend to get launched at events such as the "Tour de Presteigne" in May?

I've read some of your previous posts by the way -- impressive knowledge and experience, not to mention environmental commitment!

 

[rsscott]

..... do new bikes tend to get launched at events such as the "Tour de Presteigne" in May?

It's possible but no one knows at this point! If you are able to make the event then it would be fantastic opportunity to try out a wide range of bikes to see which suits you most (and most certainly all the models you refer to in your main post)

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Also
dont forget Ezee bikes might have a ex demo for sale or there was a torq for sale on this forum and a 7 speed sprint and on ebay there is a 7 speed chopper bike so there are other options.NIGEL

 

[flecc]

Thank you for your kind comments.

This is usually the period of the year when bikes are being announced ready for the Summer market, the recent eZee Liv as well a the Wisper being examples, so it could a good time to be patient and wait for the dust to settle.

On the values you mention, the very competitive nature of the market means that any firm not offering true value will disappear quite quickly. The models you've mentioned have discernable reasons for their price points.

The Salisbury has base level equipment and a 24 volt system so that's commensurate with the £495/£595 price point, good value though. Always look into what's included though, there's no lights and delivery cost is extra.

The Wisper has the same base level equipment, but has a 36 volt system towards the higher price. The illustrations don't show full mudguards and carrier, but they are listed as included. One must ask if they are not shown to enable the low weight to be advertised, such detail is important.

The Suede you mention is a difficult case. It's quality is good for the price, but it hasn't had very good reviews for various reasons. However, owners disagree and many like it, some of them having previous experience of e-bikes so are not judging in isolation. Therefore a trial at a Giant dealers is more important with this one, it's how you will like it that counts of course.

The eZee Liv is especially good value, despite an older type brush motor that's a touch more noisy than a Hall effect one, it's powerful and the specification and equipment are good like the Suede.

The Torq is a much higher price, in part due to the included equipment quality, but as ever, one always pays some premium for something which is unique. There's nothing else like it, and if it suits your territory, riding ability and usage, you'll wear a smile much more than ever before, and that's worth a bit.

 

[gr1mb0]

Excellent advice Flecc - thanks.

I think a test ride is the way to go - I'll learn a lot from this. Not easy to arrange with the Powacycle by the looks of it - so I'll start with the Giant Suede vs. the Ezee Torq (I understand 50cycles encourage local owners to provide test ride facilities... a great idea if it is a good bike as 'word of mouth' marketing will apply).

I'll let everyone know how I get on - assuming there will be other novices like me looking for similar info in future.

 

[flecc]

You can try the Powacycle as they have some dealers as well. You can contact Carl through the pre and post sales clinic in this site. Give that a try, just use the link I've given and enter your query as a new thread.

We would appreciate the feedback of how you get on at every stage as well your final decision, the more experiences we accumulate the better for us all.


.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Coices Choices

Hi Guys,

Much of what has been posted here is spot on but the Wisper 905 is £350 less expensive than some of our competition mentioned and we strive to give superb value for money. We have now sold good quantites of the Works 905e and apart from two teething problems (both of which have been resolved) we have have had wonderful feed back. One customer calling the Works 905e "The Rolls Royce of Pedelecs"! We wouldn't go so far, but it was good to hear.

Another comment that is comming up time and time again is that apart from the bike being quietly powerful and very light, the Wisper Works 905e has better stopping capabilities than any other Pedelec out there with absolutely no dangerous vibration as associated with some of our competition.

The truth of the pudding is however in the eating, so...............

If you would like to test the Works 905e please drop me a line at David@WisperBike.com and we will make one available to you, then you can make your own mind up.

We will be at Presteigne, The New Forest and The London O2 Dome Rallies, and would be delighted to let anyone have a trial.

I so enjoy this industry!!

Best regards to Pedelecers all.

David Miall

 

[Charlie]

Hi,
After owning an Ezee Torq for a couple of weeks now, I can say I'm very pleased with it. But it is very much a road bike with MTB styling. Derestrict it, stick to the tarmac and you'll be riding everywhere with a smile on your face.
Too heavy and no suspension means a bumpy ride on anything other than smooth cycleways.

Unless the others can be derestricted, I would say I would be very disappointed with 15 mph. What I didn't realise was that the moter cuts out at 15mph, you can peddle faster, but it's all your own effort. On the flat I can cruise on my ordinary bike, faster and easier than 15mph, so trying to peddle a heavier electric bike over 15 mph seems silly. But deristricted I can peddle quite hard and still go up hills without too much effort at 19mph, and still keepi the smille on my face. Brillant.

Charlie.

 

[gr1mb0]

Thanks Charlie - yes, I'm worried about how 15mph will feel as I regularly keep up with traffic on my existing manual cycle.

After sales upport may also be a big factor in my choice -- nearest Powacycle centre is Gosport (30+miles) and nearest Ezee test ride is Southampton, with support back at HQ in the event of problems.

At least Giant have a local dealer, and Wisper have a centre in Christchurch - I will be test riding both this weekend

Will post a new thread with first impressions of pedelecs!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

15mph

Hi Charlie

I understand the law says that if a powered vehicle can exceed 25kph or 15.5mph it's classification changes to that of a moped.

If you ride a moped on the road you must have license, MOT and insurance.

According to the police they are not likely to become involved in stopping pedelecs and testing them, however if you have a serious accident involving injury it is likely that the bike would be tested. If it were proven that the bike had been de-restricted you would be liable for prosecution: Driving without a license (if you don't have a license). Driving a vehicle without a current MOT and Driving without insurance for starters.

The 15.5 mph limit under power only is there for a reason, if as an industry we ignore the law we must expect the very lenient attitude to pedelecs to be reviewed.

Best regards David

 

[FatMog]

Does the sprint motor cut out at 15mph too? I've been happily pootling along on my new toy for the past couple of weeks, putting in some VERY minor effort in 5th or 6th out of it's 7 gears and cruising at 16-18 mph.

OK this is on the flat, but as I've mentioned before, I'm not particularly lightweight and think if I didn't pedal at all my top speed would be about 13mph.

I can honestly say I haven't noticed any lack of motor so I kinda think it's still in there; if I take my hand off the throttle to signal a turn I'm sure I notice a sudden heaviness. I will pay more attention tonight!

 

[Tim]

riving without insurance for starters.

The 15.5 mph limit under power only is there for a reason, if as an industry we ignore the law we must expect the very lenient attitude to pedelecs to be reviewed.

Best regards David

Are you absolutely sure your 250W 905e is within the letter of the law? I recall exceeding 16mph down the Strand on the one I tried!

 

[rsscott]

I don't think it is reasonable to expect any bike to be absolutely spot on at 15.5 mph all of the time. There are too many variables - rider weight, accuracy of the speed measurement, status of the battery, terrain etc..

For the bikes that can be de-restricted, it is worth reiterating the point that this should only be done if the bike is to be ridden off-road on private land.

Earlier this week I used a satnav device in my car. With the car speedometer at 70mph, the SatNav was showing 63mph. One of them is wrong, so clearly there has to be some allowance!!

 

[flecc]

Does the sprint motor cut out at 15mph too?

Like many if not most hub motor electric bikes, the Sprint is designed by it's internal gearing to run out of steam at the legal limit when run at the nominal battery voltage, electric motors generally having there rev rate determined by voltage. In other words, it's naturally limited.

It follows that a freshly charged battery which has a rather higher voltage will give the higher speeds you mention. At the other end of the scale when the battery charge, and therefore voltage, is low, the speed will drop substantially and will end up below the legal limit in adverse circumstances. The mean speed complies, and no-one is going to regard that as unreasonable as it isn't in any way a flagrant breach of law. As with any British legal issue, it's the spirit of the law that ultimately counts.
.

 

[FatMog]

Oh well, maybe that explains why I found myself exceeding the speed limit the other day as I whizzed down the steepest part of my ride

 

[Ian]

Does the sprint motor cut out at 15mph too? I've been happily pootling along on my new toy for the past couple of weeks, putting in some VERY minor effort in 5th or 6th out of it's 7 gears and cruising at 16-18 mph.

Both my Sprint and Torq provide some help up to about 17 mph, there is no clearly defined cutoff as such, the power gradually reduces as the legal limit is approached. At 17 mph the help is minimal, closing the throttle reduces the speed by about 1 mph with no change in the pedal effort.

Ian.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Tim

Hi Tim, nice to hear from you.

Please accept my apologies if the Wisper Works 905e exceeded the limit by half a mile an hour, we will look into it.

We only have limited numbers of 250's for European sales, I am sure the one you had was the standard 200w. I will check and let you know.

Very best regards, David

 

[flecc]

There's an almost comical aspect to this whole electric bike limit issue. Without the motor active, today I flew down the mile and a half of Sanderstead Hill at a steady 31 mph for most of the way, riding the project e-bike I've been working on.

Previously I've belted down the steepest of the hills on nearby 30 limited Farleigh Road at just over 41 mph on the Torq, perfectly legal of course since our road speed limits don't apply to bikes.

Daft or what? We mustn't do over 15.5 mph driven by a puny electric motor, but can harness the immense force of gravity to exceed town speed limits by as much as we like, which can easily be 75 mph downhill on a recumbent trike. Truly the legislators world is a mad one.