Home Solar Panels

[Zlatan]

With current situation Re energy and predicted price rises of 80% this Oct and further 50% few months later its becoming more feasible to fork out for solar panel system.
On a personal (at home) we use approx 3000 kwh per annum. Been quoted £12k for a 9 x240w panel system with 3.2 kwh battery that should (predicted) produce 76% of our needs. Savings dependent on price rises but currently would be circa £500 a year. (paying 27 p per unit)
Seriously considering??
Any thoughts.??

 

[oyster]

With current situation Re energy and predicted price rises of 80% this Oct and further 50% few months later its becoming more feasible to fork out for solar panel system.
On a personal (at home) we use approx 3000 kwh per annum. Been quoted £12k for a 9 x240w panel system with 3.2 kwh battery that should (predicted) produce 76% of our needs. Savings dependent on price rises but currently would be circa £500 a year. (paying 27 p per unit)
Seriously considering??
Any thoughts.??

If they have decent quality kit, and install it properly, and keep to their promises, it sounds good.

No idea if you could do better. But I do think that self-generation of a basic amount makes sense.

 

[Benjahmin]

From my research there's not many (I think only Tesla Power Wall) combined battery/panel systems that will allow generation during a power cut. This is to prevent backfeed of voltage into the supply system when it is down as there may be blokes working on it. The powerwall achieves it by monitoring the mains. If 230v supply goes down then the powerwall isolates the house from the external grid, it then provides a 230v AC signal to the panel inverter (from the battery)allowing the panels to continue to give power for use or to charge the battery. When the mains comes back on the system automatically reverts to normal operation.
So if cost is the only consideration then any system will suffice. But if you want backup power during outages then this may be a consideration.

I have had a 1.75Kw installation on a south facing 30 degree roof since 2012. I was just in time to qualify for the original bonkers feed in tarif payments. I think my system paid for itself in around 7 years. Now the feed in tarrif payments more than pay my electric bill - unless Truss decides to interfere.
I think mine was around £7k, so youll be getting 50% more generation + a battery for around 65% more money. Allowing for 10 years inflation that sounds pretty good.

 

[Zlatan]

Thanks both of you for comments. Never gave it a thought about usage during power cut. I, d assumed it would simply work on battery???
And system is actually 9x400 w panels.. Brain freeze putting 9x240..??
I thought price was reasonable.

 

[Danidl]

With current situation Re energy and predicted price rises of 80% this Oct and further 50% few months later its becoming more feasible to fork out for solar panel system.
On a personal (at home) we use approx 3000 kwh per annum. Been quoted £12k for a 9 x240w panel system with 3.2 kwh battery that should (predicted) produce 76% of our needs. Savings dependent on price rises but currently would be circa £500 a year. (paying 27 p per unit)
Seriously considering??
Any thoughts.??

Hi Z , I can answer to this with a little experience... I have had an 11 panel 330watt system up virtually a year. It has generated 3.1MW.hr over that time , with up to 20KW.hr on any of those summer days. . But precious little on these murky rainy days. Since I don't yet have a smart meter, anything we don't use, we give away free.

 

[Danidl]

With current situation Re energy and predicted price rises of 80% this Oct and further 50% few months later its becoming more feasible to fork out for solar panel system.
On a personal (at home) we use approx 3000 kwh per annum. Been quoted £12k for a 9 x240w panel system with 3.2 kwh battery that should (predicted) produce 76% of our needs. Savings dependent on price rises but currently would be circa £500 a year. (paying 27 p per unit)
Seriously considering??
Any thoughts.??

Hi Z , I can answer to this with a little experience... I have had an 11 panel 330watt system up virtually a year. It has generated 3.1MW.hr over that time , with up to 20KW.hr on any of those summer days. . But precious little on these murky rainy days. Since I don't yet have a smart meter, anything we don't use

 

[Danidl]

Further to the above... Which I was doing on my phone while on a train so difficult to do.accurately I arranged to have 4 panels facing due South and 7 panels on the return ,facing West. This means that the total uptake of energy might be less intense, but is longer duration . The Inverter controller is rated at 3.6KW , but this combination has actually exceeded that on a few occasions. I don't have a battery ,as I that decided that the RoI would not be worthwhile, and it would be better to put up more panels . The battery is only good for a decade and the panels for probably 25 to 30 years, the panels are rated at 36v and 10 Amps , so the South String has 4 in series and about 140v voltage. . The Western String has 7 so it produces just under 250V.again up to 10 Amps.. The interesting thing is that the panel voltage remains very high , even in moonlight, but of course current is then miniscule..20mA is the default level in the controller. Under very bright sunlight , the current has gone to 11 amps.
Under the regulations in Ireland, there are special relays ,energised by the domestic mains, which shut off the current from the panels just inside the eves if the domestic mains drops out . .. .The invertors regulator is also fed by the domestic mains to produce the reference phase and reference mains voltage... It is designed so that it has zero phase difference with the mains, but is a few millivolt higher in AC voltage , so it drives current into the system .
My system cost me 7200 euro, ..I think it was 8500 euro list, but there was a grant . The units with battery would have been I think another 3000, as they need a different inverter regulator with a low voltage output to a battery pack.

 

[Edwards35]

With current situation Re energy and predicted price rises of 80% this Oct and further 50% few months later its becoming more feasible to fork out for solar panel system.
On a personal (at home) we use approx 3000 kwh per annum. Been quoted £12k for a 9 x240w panel system with 3.2 kwh battery that should (predicted) produce 76% of our needs. Savings dependent on price rises but currently would be circa £500 a year. (paying 27 p per unit)
Seriously considering??
Any thoughts.??

I would consider buying one. Here good models of panels and generators are introduced https://houseandbeyond.org/best-solar-generator/. But given this degradation that is reported widely at 1% a year and the lack of cloudy sky generation, I have to think this is being rushed into. When cloudy sky generation is improved most solar in the uk will be replaced.

 

[Benjahmin]

I happened to need to go into my attic the other day, this in where the inverter is. It was an overcast day and my 1.75w array was producing a mingy 44w. Having said that, because I'm on the original export tarrif, the first two quarters of this year have paid my annual electric bill.
For folk currently considering solar there is now no credible export tarrif, the rates paid are derisory. ( Perhaps it should be set at whatever the current wholesale rate is?) This makes the payback time on capital investment much longer but consideration has to be given to possible ability to generate during a power outage which, despite much protestation to the contrary, we are going to be seeing more of.
This would be the reason to consider a combined battery/panel installation with and auto change over function to allow power delivery during an outage. Of course more upfront cost but only attracts 5% vat.

 

[Erin0110]

I installed solar panels https://www.propaneva.com/best-off-grid-solar-system/ They come out 33% cheaper.
I installed this on our RV in the rainy Pacific North West. Easy installation. Ever since we disconnected from the piedestall and have only used solar power. I did not expect to be able to do that here in Oregon. But our batteries get fully charges every day and during the day we discharge To 40 - 50%, BUT IN THE AFTERNOON WE REACH 100% again. It has been like that even on rainy days. We can run lights, fans, water pumps, tv, charging for PC, Phones, and Ipads. All this on a 400W solar system. I'm very positive surprised by this.

 

[Zlatan]

I installed solar panels https://www.propaneva.com/best-off-grid-solar-system/ They come out 33% cheaper.
I installed this on our RV in the rainy Pacific North West. Easy installation. Ever since we disconnected from the piedestall and have only used solar power. I did not expect to be able to do that here in Oregon. But our batteries get fully charges every day and during the day we discharge To 40 - 50%, BUT IN THE AFTERNOON WE REACH 100% again. It has been like that even on rainy days. We can run lights, fans, water pumps, tv, charging for PC, Phones, and Ipads. All this on a 400W solar system. I'm very positive surprised by this.

Try it in Rotherham.

 

[Danidl]

I happened to need to go into my attic the other day, this in where the inverter is. It was an overcast day and my 1.75w array was producing a mingy 44w. Having said that, because I'm on the original export tarrif, the first two quarters of this year have paid my annual electric bill.
For folk currently considering solar there is now no credible export tarrif, the rates paid are derisory. ( Perhaps it should be set at whatever the current wholesale rate is?) This makes the payback time on capital investment much longer but consideration has to be given to possible ability to generate during a power outage which, despite much protestation to the contrary, we are going to be seeing more of.
This would be the reason to consider a combined battery/panel installation with and auto change over function to allow power delivery during an outage. Of course more upfront cost but only attracts 5% vat.

My experience is rather positive ..of course the power output is extremely variable and can be as low only about 0.5kwhr per day. watts per day .. in fact my worst month was last December with 45.4kw hrs over the month . But it can be ten times that in Summer .. 457kwhrs in July. Even today, a very cold day in December it is 3.8kw.hrs of peak cost Electricity. You have to take longer term averages . The output on any day can seriously fluctuate. Year on year it's running at about 3.6 Mw.hrs.

 

[Nealh]

The issue is with UK weather, when solar demand is most needed it is often late autumn and winter when tbh i is of little value in harnessing usable power.

 

[Danidl]

The issue is with UK weather, when solar demand is most needed it is often late autumn and winter when tbh i is of little value in harnessing usable power.

You are like those comedians who used to raise a laugh about their solar torches not working at night... . The point is that PV does work. Today ,this minute, is probably the coldest day so far here, and my panels this Instant 11:14 Am are generating 700 watts. My Grid electricity consumption ,with heat pump etc ,this same instant is 2.30KW ...so the panels are doing about 25% of my electric power consumption.
You need to look at AVERAGE s ...

 

[Zlatan]

You are like those comedians who used to raise a laugh about their solar torches not working at night... . The point is that PV does work. Today ,this minute, is probably the coldest day so far here, and my panels this Instant 11:14 Am are generating 700 watts. My Grid electricity consumption ,with heat pump etc ,this same instant is 2.30KW ...so the panels are doing about 25% of my electric power consumption.
You need to look at AVERAGE s ...

Working and financially viable are 2 different things. Obviously they work, would be rather odd if they didn't.
I had a really close look into them quite recently. To my mind the outlay of £12k is not justified with savings I calculated. People forget that the £12k left alone even in current situation will return at least 3%. (my investments have even in last year returned 4.8%)...So selling £12kinvestments earning £500 a year(roughly) is certainly not worthwhile to save £100 (ish, not guaranteed) a month. Wasnt viable for me... Stuff would need replacing before real savings made.
The investment in wind farms looks far more attractive for UK,but I, m sat in sun in Cyprus at moment. I, ll have a look when home.

Danidl. I had a quick look at your at your quoted figures, by my shaky calculations you are saving 19p per hour whilst generating 700w. My 12k is making 6p per hour, 24 hours a day, hail, rain or hopefully shine.???? And its there if I need it to buy a Porsche or tooth implants.??

 

[Benjahmin]

People forget that the £12k left alone even in current situation will return at least 3%. (my investments have even in last year returned 4.8%)...So selling £12kinvestments earning £500 a year(roughly) is certainly not worthwhile to save £100 (ish, not guaranteed) a month. Wasnt viable for me... Stuff would need replacing before real savings made.

Problem with this reasoning is that it does not factor in inflation.
As you say, your investments are returning 3%, however inflation is running (officially)* at 10%. This means your savings are actually loosing at least 7% in value/annum. At 2% inflation any savings will loose 50% of their value in 20/ 21 years - seems fairly innocuous, that's why it's the bank of England target. They know most will just not notice.
At 10% you will loose 50% buying power in a little over four years. So what costs 12k today could well be 18k in four years.

* It's a sure bet that actual inflation is much higher than officially quoted figures. Anyone with savings based in sterling (or any other currency) is being stealthily robbed.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Problem with this reasoning is that it does not factor in inflation.
As you say, your investments are returning 3%, however inflation is running (officially)* at 10%. This means your savings are actually loosing at least 7% in value/annum. At 2% inflation any savings will loose 50% of their value in 20/ 21 years - seems fairly innocuous, that's why it's the bank of England target. They know most will just not notice.
At 10% you will loose 50% buying power in a little over four years. So what costs 12k today could well be 18k in four years.

* It's a sure bet that actual inflation is much higher than officially quoted figures. Anyone with savings based in sterling (or any other currency) is being stealthily robbed.

To complicate things further (speaking as an expatriate who er, expatriated, capital after 2016) sweden is in the midst of a house price crash (down 15%, projected to fall 20%). And it's a buy to let paradise. Time investing there well (and seriously, I don't have any commercial links with the Swedish govt so am not trying to sell anything) and one could buy quite a lot of solar panels with the profit.

 

[Zlatan]

Problem with this reasoning is that it does not factor in inflation.
As you say, your investments are returning 3%, however inflation is running (officially)* at 10%. This means your savings are actually loosing at least 7% in value/annum. At 2% inflation any savings will loose 50% of their value in 20/ 21 years - seems fairly innocuous, that's why it's the bank of England target. They know most will just not notice.
At 10% you will loose 50% buying power in a little over four years. So what costs 12k today could well be 18k in four years.

* It's a sure bet that actual inflation is much higher than officially quoted figures. Anyone with savings based in sterling (or any other currency) is being stealthily robbed.

That's rather like me saying your panels are bordering on worthless if you tried to sell them. Which to be fair they nearly are.
The simple fact is even if my investments are devaluing they are still offsetting your very poor return (on Circa 12k investments).
Work out the date when you will have saved your investment.. Factor in cleaning, repairs, break downs and servicing.
Panels/system are a very poor investment and suspect only worthwhile if its an interest.
Each too his own. Wouldn't do for us all to think same. Now if I lived in Cyprus or South of France I, m fairly sure maths would be different, but I don't.
Even the chap selling our system was quite adament our only way to save was to combine panels with quite a large battery and make use of variable rate tarrif,which was not available for us. He was in agreement (surprisingly) that without variable tarrifs it was unlikely to save money.

 

[soundwave]

just stick up a turbine

 

[flecc]

At 2% inflation any savings will loose 50% of their value in 20/ 21 years - seems fairly innocuous, that's why it's the bank of England target. They know most will just not notice.

I do notice but don't care, swings and roundabouts apply, since it depends on one's income and outgoings. As Mr Micawber put it:

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.”

My income also grows, so I always have a substantial annual income surplus which currently greatly exceeds the inflation loss on my invested money earning 4.6%.

Therefore my capital always grows and to keep that in check I Iive well with luxuries like my electric car and never having to look at prices.

So for me there is only negative inflation and I don't care about the nitty-gritty of what goes up or what goes down.

Almost everyone could live this way, but these days most don't choose to, preferring to spend what they don't have and then being miserable.
.