Hire in London - Failure?

Dear All,

Have looked out for ebike hire in C.London, but did not find anything (Hertz used to do them @ 20£ a day from Marble Arch, but stopped).

Does anyone here know why this business has not gotten off the ground? It might be a interesting opportunity, or am I missing something here?

it's the perenial problem of high cost to run any kind of business in London.

You'd need to take about £1,000 a day in central London to meet the outgoing costs. That's 50 hires a day. Not easy to find that many customers.

If you can operate without staff, then you may need possibly 10-15 hires a day to make it work but your bikes will look like Boris bikes with battery. It's still difficult to see if there is enough demand.

BTW, if anyone wanting to start a e-bike hire business in London, Hatti @ Woosh would like very much to hear about that. Investment is available.

Trex - great response, appreciate your input but I reached different figures...

- The rental prices - both on 4 hourly and daily basis are far higher than the ones you quoted;

- I would focus on Paddington / Victoria / KK / Waterloo vicinity, target the incoming tourism market (Paddington gets Heathrow, Victoria gets Gatwick), KK & Waterloo will be cheaper facilities to rent;

- Offer 3 classes of bikes - (up to the Swiss premium one:-), routes around town;

- Keep staff to a bare minimum (drawing a costs plan right now), but in cooperation with Hotels etc I can not understand why this will not draw full house with waiting lists...

All input you guys is highly appreciated, think of a tourist who wants to see the city, beat traffic but is not as sporty as the forum members - what bikes would suit?

Trex - great response, appreciate your input but I reached different figures...

 

"The rental prices - both on 4 hourly and daily basis are far higher than the ones you quoted"

 

Correction: Can be far higher

 

- I would focus on Paddington / Victoria / KK / Waterloo vicinity, target the incoming tourism market (Paddington gets Heathrow, Victoria gets Gatwick), KK & Waterloo will be cheaper facilities to rent;

 

- Offer 3 classes of bikes - (up to the Swiss premium one:), routes around town;

 

- Keep staff to a bare minimum (drawing a costs plan right now), but in cooperation with Hotels etc I can not understand why this will not draw full house with waiting lists...

 

All input you guys is highly appreciated, think of a tourist who wants to see the city, beat traffic but is not as sporty as the forum members - what bikes would suit?

- Therental prices - both on 4 hourly and daily basis are far higher than the ones you quoted;

The existence of the London hire bikes which are free for the first half hour, so most use them free, is real competiton for any paying scheme.

I believe some locations also have the "Bromptons in Lockers" scheme which is said to be popular.

Much of the central area of London is flat too.

All these dent the prospects for an e-bike hire scheme.

.

The existence of the London hire bikes which are free for the first half hour, so most use them free, is real competiton for any paying scheme.

 

I believe some locations also have the "Bromptons in Lockers" scheme which is said to be popular.

 

Much of the central area of London is flat too.

 

All these dent the prospects for an e-bike hire scheme.

.

All this applies to normal bikes, Boris or others, not to the ebikes catering for those who are not as sporty but still want to enjoy the streets and feel the vibe.

Amsterdam and Berlin are also flat, it's all about covering distances with minimal effort.

Andy Gilligan (London cycling commissioner) wanted to set up public e-bike hire scheme in London. We had lots of discussions on it, I tried hard to steer him away from it but failed. My objection was this:

Cyclists ride bikes. They are self selected experienced riders.

E-bikes are attractive to non cyclists who are likely less experienced.

Put 10'000 inexperienced cyclist on the capitals roads and serious and fatal accident rates will go through the roof.

If that happens the redtops will scream for legislation requiring e-bikers to hold a license, to register their bike, and likely pay some form of tax.

Governments sad but true do what the redtop editors tell them to do.

That would spell the end of e-bikes as a potential mainstream form of transport in the UK. ...Just what big auto and oil want.

Don't belive me? ...I'm starting a new post on this week's terrible news that both China and Taiwan have begun banning e-bikes.

Edited May 6, 20169 yr by james@justebikes.co.uk

that's an exaggeration, James.

You use the word 'inexperienced' to make your argument ring true.

e-bikes, especially those with thumb throttle and sensored brakes, are much easier to control than push bikes. They should reduce accidents, not increase them.

So

that's an exaggeration, James.

You use the word 'inexperienced' to make your argument ring true.

e-bikes, especially those with thumb throttle and sensored brakes, are much easier to control than push bikes. They should reduce accidents, not increase them.

Sorry James but can only agree with Trex, let alone the fact that many hop on Boris bikes without being "experienced riders".

Andy Gilligan (London cycling commissioner) wanted to set up public e-bike hire scheme in London. We had lots of discussions on it, I tried hard to steer him away from it but failed. My objection was this:

 

Cyclists ride bikes. They are self selected experienced riders.

E-bikes are attractive to non cyclists who are likely less experienced.

Put 10'000 inexperienced cyclist on the capitals roads and serious and fatal accident rates will go through the roof.

If that happens the redtops will scream for legislation requiring e-bikers to hold a license, to register their bike, and likely pay some form of tax.

Governments sad but true do what the redtop editors tell them to do.

That would spell the end of e-bikes as a potential mainstream form of transport in the UK. ...Just what big auto and oil want.

 

Don't belive me? ...I'm starting a new post on this week's terrible news that both China and Taiwan have begun banning e-bikes.

Andy plans are anyhow medium to long term, and with new Mayor there is zero clarity if it will even proceed anywhere (as I gleaned yesterday from a chat with his office @ GLA)!

In any case, I still strongly believe there is room - amongst the millions visiting London - for a high quality ebike rental place.

The existence of the London hire bikes which are free for the first half hour, so most use them free, is real competiton for any paying scheme.

.

I know quite a few leisure cyclists like Hatti are too scared of using the Boris bikes. Hatti rides her Petite or the folding Gale in London.

It may be a physical thing or fear of traffic.She said the the Boris bike is a bit too big and heavy for her. Also, it's hard to go uphill with.

Edited May 6, 20169 yr by trex

Rambo76, have you thought about bike locks and vandalism?

Yes I did, and for some reason some are here at the forum comparing it time and again to Boris bikes. I see Hertz / Avis as guide, you hire, you insure... As simple as that, theft and damage are the renters problem as much as with a vehicle they would rent, and rental & storage are at the location, again - fully secured & insured.

If you are worried about cycling in London you can get free trainning:

https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/12421.aspx

Rambo76

presumably, you don't have docking stations for your bikes. The renters will need to be supplied with a lock. What happens if he/she locks the rented bike to a lamp post, goes shopping for 30 minutes, comes back and sees the bike vandalised or gone? Who is responsible?

relationship with bike manufacturers is more issue to think about. All bike manufacturers only guarantee their bikes for normal use, not for rental use.

They may also wriggle out of their responsibilities in case of accidents.

One of the London boroughs wanted to set up a Boris bikes hire scheme for e-bikes. We and other sellers were invited to tender. It was too big a project for us to handle and I could see enormous problems.

I don't think any of us tendered for the task,the council wanted to pass all the hassle over to us and benefit out of the proceeds.

To be honest I don't know any of the e-bikes sold currently in the UK would suit e-bike hire....such bikes need to be very robust and as maintenance free as possible.

KudosDave

Rambo76

 

presumably, you don't have docking stations for your bikes. The renters will need to be supplied with a lock. What happens if he/she locks the rented bike to a lamp post, goes shopping for 30 minutes, comes back and sees the bike vandalised or gone? Who is responsible?

Some English are not responsible individuals,can you imagine an e-bike hired in Paddington that runs out of battery in St Albans! Can you imagine some guy ,stoned,rides one into the Thames!

I cannot imagine a more nightmare business.

KudosDave

Rambo76

 

presumably, you don't have docking stations for your bikes. The renters will need to be supplied with a lock. What happens if he/she locks the rented bike to a lamp post, goes shopping for 30 minutes, comes back and sees the bike vandalised or gone? Who is responsible?

Rental insurance exists for e-bikes covering all those in full, the costs are rolled over to renters as in car rental (with excess on CC).

Have not clarified costing yet in the UK, but comparing to similar schemes in other countries they are reasonable.

One of the London boroughs wanted to set up a Boris bikes hire scheme for e-bikes. We and other sellers were invited to tender. It was too big a project for us to handle and I could see enormous problems.

I don't think any of us tendered for the task,the council wanted to pass all the hassle over to us and benefit out of the proceeds.

To be honest I don't know any of the e-bikes sold currently in the UK would suit e-bike hire....such bikes need to be very robust and as maintenance free as possible.

KudosDave

Agree that Boris style, where there is no knowledge of renter, might cause those issues.

A renter walking into a rental branch and placing a CC + Insurance is a different story altogether.

K

Some English are not responsible individuals,can you imagine an e-bike hired in Paddington that runs out of battery in St Albans! Can you imagine some guy ,stoned,rides one into the Thames!

I cannot imagine a more nightmare business.

KudosDave

Kudos, many kids rent vehicles and smash them or run out of fuel, so what?

No return, your CC gets hit in full.

KD

it does not have to be a nightmare. The biggest issue is not the bike itself, you can specify exactly what you want in a bike, an engineering design company can sort the details out. The biggest issue is the size of the project. You need to think big enough to resource the project correctly.

I would suggest a coop structure to make this work.

K

 

Kudos, many kids rent vehicles and smash them or run out of fuel, so what?

 

No return, your CC gets hit in full.

I run a mail order company,I am sure that you must be aware of the number of dodgy or cloned credit cards in circulation.

Irrespective of the finances,someone has to source out the hassle...getting the bike back from St Albans for example.

I know that such a scheme works very well in Copenhagen.

Much easier businesses to run,but good luck to anyone who tries.

KudosDave

T

KD

it does not have to be a nightmare. The biggest issue is not the bike itself, you can specify exactly what you want in a bike, an engineering design company can sort the details out. The biggest issue is the size of the project. You need to think big enough to resource the project correctly.

I would suggest a coop structure to make this work.

Trex, do you mean Coop or do you mean NetJet style?

And what economy of scale are you thinking off?