Highway code changes

[flecc]

The trouble is the new rule H1 doesn't say YOU MUST it says you should.

Because the Highway Code advice is just that, not the law.

But it can and does influence the courts in judgement and sentencing.
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[guerney]

More like one rule for selfish people, one for the rest of us.
'Tosser' immediately comes to mind when I see those vehicles. If everyone shows blue lights they stop being effective.

There were three zapped-out giggly weirdy beardy hippies up front. I've seen cars with colour chaging lights shining out from underneath, pulsing in time to the beat. There really aren't enough cops to enforce laws.

 

[Craiggor 2]

Because the Highway Code advice is just that, not the law.

But it can and does influence the courts in judgement and sentencing.
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Many of the rules in the highway code are legal requirements not just advice. Such rules are identified by the use of the words 'MUST/MUST NOT'. In addition,the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. And that's why there is still confusion.

 

[flecc]

Many of the rules in the highway code are legal requirements not just advice. Such rules are identified by the use of the words 'MUST/MUST NOT'. In addition,the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. And that's why there is still confusion.

Agreed, but only because the advice happens to coincide with the law as you note.

The guide itself has never had the force of law behind it. Realistically it never can have since so much of the advice is dependent on circumstances, so is flexible.
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[flecc]

Leading on from my previous post on good behaviour in my area, I've been on my regular 5 mile each way trip this morning.

Saw two car drivers ahead of me stop for pedestrians to cross at corners. The second one who was preparing to turn into a side road had to block the busy main road traffic lane he was in to do that, both for the couple he stopped for and then for a man just arriving to cross.

That's fine of course, but I just hope some tempers don't start getting frayed when there's lots of such stops at side roads.
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[richtea99]

Agreed, but only because the advice happens to coincide with the law as you note.

The guide itself has never had the force of law behind it. Realistically it never can have since so much of the advice is dependent on circumstances, so is flexible.
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Quite right. If it was purely a set of laws, it would be called the Highway Laws.
'Code' suggests a code of conduct on the highway.

 

[The Silverfox]

I was out for a ride yesterday with a couple of friends and came to a light controlled pedestrian/cycle crossing. Before I pressed the button a car from the right stopped even though the lights were green for him. I looked to my left and a car approaching from that way stopped as well. What to do? We all hesitated and then as they were still sat there we crossed and thanked them. Some people taking the new rules to extreme.

 

[flecc]

I was out for a ride yesterday with a couple of friends and came to a light controlled pedestrian/cycle crossing. Before I pressed the button a car from the right stopped even though the lights were green for him. I looked to my left and a car approaching from that way stopped as well. What to do? We all hesitated and then as they were still sat there we crossed and thanked them. Some people taking the new rules to extreme.

Its the sort of thing that's bound to happen when the guide advises stop for people wanting to cross, conflicting with what the signal indicates.

I've had similar happen when I've stopped for a pedestrian but then they nervously don't cross, waiting for me to move off first. I think pedestrians have been so indoctrinated with having to stop for cars at junctions plus their fear of vehicles that it will be quite a while before they get used to the new order.

It's possible to be too helpful at times. Many years ago and waiting in a queue of cars to exit onto a main road at a T junction, I saw an old lady standing on the edge of the kerb just ahead. So as it was going to be a while before getting to the junction I hopped out of my car and asked her if she was wanting to cross the road. She said yes, so I took her arm and walked her across to the other side, returning to behind the wheel.

I notice she was looking confused about where to go next but pulled forward. Shortly after looking in my door mirror I saw another driver helping her back across the road !

I can only think she was either suffering from dementia or didn't like to say no to my kind offer, poor woman. I'll never know which side she really belonged.
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[DiggyGun]

Because the Highway Code advice is just that, not the law.

But it can and does influence the courts in judgement and sentencing.
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It‘s the same with H&S legislation, Approved Code of Practices (ACOPs) are not law, but similarly guidance. But can be used against you in the law courts.

 

[TedG]

My apologies if this is already known but the newly announced laws being discussed do not apply in Northern Ireland UK.


Don't ask.

 

[Nealh]

That's correct Ted, the NI devolved Gov't i.e. Stormont set your road/transport policies.
Like your long time legality issues with pedelec's being ratified in law, the current amendment's across the rest of the UK are under review in NI.

Highway Code changes do not apply to Northern Ireland, Stormont department confirms (msn.com)

 

[trevor brooker]

I've not noticed any difference so far.
I've just got back from my evening ride to the shops (less traffic & shops almost empty).
On the main road I was in my usual left hand wheel rut with 3 cars coming towards me, 1 & 2 pass, then the large BMW coming up behind squeezes past at the same time as No 3 oncoming car. He only had to lift off his accelerator & he could have overtaken safely without a dangerous manoeuvre for both the oncoming car & myself. Indeed just a second & I would have waved him on to overtake, as I had for the previous 9 cars (some had no oncoming cars) so 1 in 10 is still too high.
I then got to the town and put myself into the middle of the lane as I was approaching a junction, only to be overtaken by a white van who then braked hard to left left into that junction.
So no change so far.

 

[TedG]

The NI devolved Gov't i.e. Stormont set your road/transport policies.

Like your long time legality issues with pedelec's being ratified in law, the current amendment's across the rest of the UK are under review in NI.

1. The buffoons on the Hill couldn't set a table for dinner for four people without bickering about the positioning of the soup spoons.

2. Under review here means a lengthy debate similar to the fiasco they dug themselves into a few years ago.
It was "ratified" only after me wearing one keyboard out and with the valued assistance of many of you guys and eventually the input from the Green Party after I got myself an invite to the Hill and a meeting.
I was even provided a car park space for one hour.

 

[guerney]

I've not noticed any difference so far.
I've just got back from my evening ride to the shops (less traffic & shops almost empty).
On the main road I was in my usual left hand wheel rut with 3 cars coming towards me, 1 & 2 pass, then the large BMW coming up behind squeezes past at the same time as No 3 oncoming car. He only had to lift off his accelerator & he could have overtaken safely without a dangerous manoeuvre for both the oncoming car & myself. Indeed just a second & I would have waved him on to overtake, as I had for the previous 9 cars (some had no oncoming cars) so 1 in 10 is still too high.
I then got to the town and put myself into the middle of the lane as I was approaching a junction, only to be overtaken by a white van who then braked hard to left left into that junction.
So no change so far.

I got sick of vehicles overtaking at night with millimeters to spare, but fitting these really does work (so far, so good). But what I really want are hubs with motorised extending tyre shredding blades...

 

[AndyBike]

Because the Highway Code advice is just that, not the law.

This is true, but many of the 'rules' are law,because the 'tips' and the laws are both in there, and you'll get done if you break them, so best not be thinking everything in the book is open to personal interpretation, it isnt.

Should a coal fire come with instructions - When Lit, Do Not Place Your Hands In The Fire ?. Shouldn't need to, and such with the highway code.

While not the law in many of the tips, they have been gathered and assembled by people concerned with road safety, who have calculated the stats over the course of road use for decades and come up with the best way to stay safe. Ignore at your own peril.

Which is what people do and that's why cyclists get squished.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Many of the rules in the highway code are legal requirements not just advice. Such rules are identified by the use of the words 'MUST/MUST NOT'. In addition,the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. And that's why there is still confusion.

Indeed so, and its a shame the 1.5M 'rule' is only a should.

I wonder what thoughts Boris would have if he were out on his bike and a motorist were to pass him under the guidance distance of 1.5M ? Just 'forget' about it then deny it ever happened on the basis that guidance is not the law ?

 

[flecc]

This is true, but many of the 'rules' are law,because the 'tips' and the laws are both in there, and you'll get done if you break them, so best not be thinking everything in the book is open to personal interpretation, it isnt.

That tends to be too simplistic.

Take the "leave 1.5 metres" overtaking rule, fine in some parts of the country. If drivers had to observe that throughout London, most of the city would be paralysed every rush hour.

With some 600,000 cycle commutes each day, which is a third of the traffic on some roads coming in and the road widths inadequate, it just can't work and the authorities know it. On a bike you're lucky if you get 1.5 feet.

As ever the rules and advice vary according to circumstances and have to be interpreted.
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[flecc]

I wonder what thoughts Boris would have if he were out on his bike and a motorist were to pass him under the guidance distance of 1.5M ? Just 'forget' about it then deny it ever happened on the basis that guidance is not the law ?

Boris was always a cycle commuter in London and drivers have always passed him and other cyclists at well below 1.5 metres because they have to. It never appeared to have disturbed him.

See my above post.
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[matthewslack]

That tends to be too simplistic.

Take the "leave 1.5 metres" overtaking rule, fine in some parts of the country. If drivers had to observe that throughout London, most of the city would be paralysed every rush hour.

With some 600,000 cycle commutes each day, which is a third of the traffic on some roads coming in and the road widths inadequate, it just can't work and the authorities know it. On a bike you're lucky if you get 1.5 feet.

As ever the rules and advice vary according to circumstances and have to be interpreted.
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I find the '1.5m' ambiguous.

I want it to mean 1.5m clear width between my widest part and the closest part of the overtaking vehicle i.e. handlebar end and mirror, respectively.

But 'leave 1.5m' can just as easily mean leaving a 1.5m wide corridor from the kerb for me to ride in, with barely any clearance at my handlebar end.

 

[flecc]

I want it to mean 1.5m clear width between my widest part and the closest part of the overtaking vehicle i.e. handlebar end and mirror, respectively.

The above is what it means and there are accompanying illustrations showing a car passing a bicycle with 1.5 metres space between them.