High torque for hilly Exeter

[Lezlee]

I've been looking for folder ebikes but with reliable motors. Finally found Kalkhoff Compact Sahel and thought that was it after a year's search. German bike with German motor.

I now read lots of negative reviews about the Impulse 2.0 motor which collects pawls and finally breaks but think I need the 70 Nm torque it offers. I realise the throttle bike is illegal here (UK) but need something like that to get up hills (I'm not a spring chicken either).

Any ideas?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You don't need 70Nm of torque on a bike with 20" wheels. Any cheapo hub-motor should suffice, though some are better than others. I put just about the weakest hub-motor you can get in a Brompton with 16" wheels. It had no trouble pulling my 100kg up a 14% hill without pedalling. 14% is about as steep as you find on normal roads. You need a bike with at least 36v brcause the 24v on the cheaper bikes is too weak.

For us to give the best advice, we need your actual weight and budget.

 

[Lezlee]

Thanks for that I'm 5'4" and weigh around 64 kilos . I've arid den a bike my whole life but here in Exeter I find it too much for me. I'm 74 years old but want to continue cycling. I also fancied having a fold up or semi fold up that I could take on a train and go off cycle touring.
But I'm now in a quandary. After test riding the Stow eWay which didn't give me the power to get up quite a steep hill and the Tern which was pretty good but £1000 more than the Kalkhoff which sailed up Fore Street, I realised that I needed a crank drive which had a high torque 70Nm was what the Kalkhoff had but I'm not prepared to risk having problems so am thinking yet again.

Do you have any ideas? I did look (but not ride yet) the Riese Muller Tinker which has a Bosch Motor but is again £1000 more than the Kalkhoff. Oh dear.

 

[Lezlee]

You asked for my budget. The Kalkhoff Sahel was under 2,000 which I could have accepted. I've tried some of the cheaper bikes, Wisper, A2B, whoosh, Volt, Juicy Bike, RooDog and recently a Tern which was £2,800. But it's important for me that I a) can get up Exeter's hills easily and b) don't have any problems.

 

[Trevormonty]

Gearing is just as important as torque with middrive.
The lower 50nm crankdrive motors like Bosch Active, Shimano Steps shouldn't have any problems climbing steep hills. You may just have to accept slightly lower climbing speed eg 15km/hr compared to 20km/hr.


Checkout
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Gepida-Miliare-Folding-Bosch-Electric-Bike

They also do more powerful expensive version with performance line 63nm motor, belt drive and internal hub gears.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm surprised that you found the Stow Eway too weak. Did you have it set on full power or were you on level one on the display?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Why do you need a crank drive...any hub drive with the BPM motor will surpass the crank drive for hill climbing.
But you say you need a folder with small wheels,the torque of a BPM motor will destroy the spokes on 20” wheels.
The Kudos Secret takes my 110 kgs up mountains out in Greece with minimal pedalling,we have sold thousands to big guys. There is a throttle option whilst current stocks last.
Looks like you are being told what a salesman has in stock rather than what is a suitable bike.
The Kalkhoff Compact is not a folder,if this is the style you like please look at the Kudos Sprint
KudosDave

 

[Gaz]

Which Wisper bikes did you try? I'm well impressed at how our 705SE haul's my 16st along. I'd have thought the 806SE would tick your boxes:
https://wisperbikes.com/e-bikes/806-se-folding-bike/

Gaz

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Gaz, I am pleased to read you are getting on well with your Wisper!

The SE is a great bike but if Lezlee would like more power the Wisper Torque series would certainly fit the bill.

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

I realise the throttle bike is illegal here (UK)

the throttle is not illegal to use in any case in the UK. When you ride on the continent, respect the local laws, avoid using the throttle if you have one.

It is illegal in the UK for manufacturers to fit a twist and go throttle to a new bike. Twist and go throttles are those that let you start on hill without pedaling like a motorbike.
Fitting a full throttle (one of those that let you reach 15mph on throttle) that requires a bit of pedaling first (making them not twist and go) is legal.
So when a bike shop tells you that it is illegal, it is not the correct representation.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I should point out that our torque bikes start as soon as you push down on the pedals. It's much like an accelerator on a car. Hill starts are very easy and there is no danger of being stopped for having a twist and go throttle, whether it's been retro fitted or not.

I think you would get on very well with the 806Torque. It's powerful, silent and folds away and has disc brakes front and rear, with Jag Wire cables, very important when coming down those hills!

 

[John_S]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the poster who said that any hub drive with the BPM motor will have better climbing ability than a crank drive (or at least, most crank drives). I own a Woosh Big Bear and previously owned a Woosh Krieger. The BPM-driven Big Bear is a very good climber but still not as good as the crank-driven Krieger was, even after I soldered the shunt of the Big Bear to increase the amps. The Krieger was an absolutely outstanding hill climber, but its motor kept breaking and needing to be replaced every three months or so, until I finally gave up on the bike. I've never had any problems with the motor of the Big Bear.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the poster who said that any hub drive with the BPM motor will have better climbing ability than a crank drive (or at least, most crank drives). I own a Woosh Big Bear and previously owned a Woosh Krieger. The BPM-driven Big Bear is a very good climber but still not as good as the crank-driven Krieger was, even after I soldered the shunt of the Big Bear to increase the amps. The Krieger was an absolutely outstanding hill climber, but its motor kept breaking and needing to be replaced every three months or so, until I finally gave up on the bike. I've never had any problems with the motor of the Big Bear.

It depends which BPM you have. They come in different speed versions from 180 rpm up to about 400 rpm. That's the same as gearing with a crank drive.The slower ones have amazing climbing power and some can handle 1500w, which would leave the Krieger for dead on any type of hill. If you put a 180 rpm BPM in a 20" wheel, its torque would be insane.

 

[Woosh]

the current best climber among my kits is the 48V SWX02 kits.
48V, winding code 16. You can chuck 1,000W into it.
winding code 16: 196 RPM at 36V, 250RPM at 48V. It climbs very well even at 800W.

 

[RobF]

You asked for my budget. The Kalkhoff Sahel was under 2,000 which I could have accepted. I've tried some of the cheaper bikes, Wisper, A2B, whoosh, Volt, Juicy Bike, RooDog and recently a Tern which was £2,800. But it's important for me that I a) can get up Exeter's hills easily and b) don't have any problems.

You've answered your own question.

The most powerful legal bike you could get is the Sahel, followed fairly closely by the Bosch motor on the Tern, then you take your chances with Chinese hub motor bikes.

Buying a biike with 20" wheels will help give extra torque.

You could do worse than an Orbea Katu 10, it has 20" wheels and the most powerful Bosch CX motor.

The wide range rear cassette should give a suitably low climbing gear.

It ought to be the equal of the Sahel.

The basket on the Katu is rather big, but it can be removed, and the bike will take a rear carrier.

Bear in mind other, cheaper, Katus have a less powerful version of the Bosch motor.

It will still climb pretty well in a 20" wheel, but it looks like you need full fat in crank drive ebike motor terms.

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/katu-e-10-lr-18