Hi I'm Jason from Bedford

[Ja_T]

Hi all, I love E-bikes but feel we are being taken for a ride in the UK with specs and prices.
I have a full UK motorcycle license, I was a motorcycle courier across the UK for around 7 years between 1990 and 2000 (a lot of time spent going to London and other major cities) was also a young fool back then
I don't understand how I can buy an e-moped for between £1500 and £4000 with A 40 AH battery and up to 5000w motor but if I want a speed pedelec I have to pay between £3000 and £7000 for a machine with less power and range that I still have to use on roads only as not allowed on cycle lanes. Companies could easily build speed pedelecs to sell for around the £1500 mark all they need really is a brake light.

I believe that radical changes are needed regarding e-bike and other electric vehicle laws and we need to petition the government to speed up their view on these matters as it is very much in line with their own environmental targets and a superfast growing market ( you only have to see the number of youths with illegal scooters to realize that change is needed fast).

I think e-bikes should be able to go 30mph on the road as this could reduce accidents in 30mph limit areas as cars wouldn't need to do risky overtakes of cycles but they should have a button for cycle lanes that limits them to 15mph, I think a 15 mph limit is fair on cycle lanes shared with pedestrians).
We rely on car owners to stick to the speed limits so shouldn't be a problem for us bikers. I think a dedicated cycle lane speed restrict button to do this would be a good idea to simplify things though.

Could even be some kind of App that could monitor this that users would have to sign up for to enable policing of cycle lane use.

Please give thoughts on this and how we could be lobbying or speeding up the government's thinking etc. You only have to look at the USA e-bike market to see that there's a lot more potential out there and we are well behind the times in the realization of it.

Happy e-biking and Warm regards, Jason

 

[vfr400]

I agree with most of what you say apart from the bit about 30 mph. I've had 30 mph electric bicycles, and I can tell you that it doesn't work unless somebody made one specifically for that speed with wider tyres and decent brakes and it didn't look like a bicycle. Even then, the problem is that drivers have the frame of reference that bicycles are slow, so they try to overtake you just before a junction or roundabout, but end up cutting you up completely after jamming on their brakes because they thought they were going to pass you much sooner. Also, they pull out of junctions on you because they fail to anticipate your speed. The end result is that you need massive concentration and defensive riding to avoid getting into trouble, which soon becomes very tedious.

 

[Benjahmin]

I agree the current approach to scooters is confusing and makes a mockery of the regs that e-bikes have to conform too.
There was a recent report of a chap being done for riding a scooter whilst drunk. Therefore it is a motor vehicle, so why do they not have reg plates, brake light, the need to wear a helmet etc?
I don't think you'd have any luck with the speed limit thing. It's a pretty much international standard (26kph) accepted by lazy regulatory bodies, we're lucky we didn't get saddled with the Japanese limit of 12mph.
What you say about equating bike speed to traffic does seem to have some merit, however there is the current drive to restrict all urban areas to 20mph which is a speed achievable by a fit cyclist (above assist cutof speed) anyway. So, again, I don't think you'd get any joy.
The speed of assist debate has been had many times on the forum.
We are currently blessed to be able to ride uncluttered by protective gear, without insurance, tax, reg plates etc. The feel is that if we stir the hornets nest we will end up having to jump through all sorts of regulatory hoops just to ride to the shops or the pub.

As to pricing - I agree. There are manufacturers who well and truly screw the unknowing to the floor. Then have the nerve to produce a bike that is unrepairable and will only accept oem electrical components at eye watering costs. Caveat Emptor is still alive and kicking where e-bikes are concerned.
However if you consider that it's easy to pay 2grand plus for some skimpy 10 kilo road bike, it's understandable.
For me cycling is a cheap, garden shed maintainable form of transport, and long may it be so.

 

[Ja_T]

Speed pedelecs are already legal and do 28mph they are just ridiculously expensive. I am happy to tax and insure one just want one at a reasonable price.
Registered Speed pedelecs

I want to be able to carry my bike up to my first floor flat for security I can't do that with a heavy e-moped but could with a registered speed pedelec.
Speed pedelec prices

Moped prices

Mopeds are much cheaper than the speed pedelecs is all I'm saying and that hopefully in the future more sensible prices for speed pedelecs with come.

 

[Nealh]

The reason for being expensive is;
1. The UK market for them is limited and small.
2. The hoops to go through to get them reg'd and the lack of the Insurers knowing bugger all about them.
3. Because companies like to hike the price.

 

[Nealh]

But Ben our Pedelec speed before aligning with the Europe was indeed 12mph, so we actually gained out of the harmonising with Europe and at the time UK law was 200w.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Speed pedelecs are already legal and do 28mph they are just ridiculously expensive. I am happy to tax and insure one just want one at a reasonable price.

It doesn't need to be so. Yes, the common German "speed pedelec" tackle is obscenely priced. But pretty much any Bafang mid-driven e-bike can not only deliver a reliable 28mph/ 45kph, but in an easy user-programmable way that suits you.

It depends if you want a noncey over-priced German name on the frame, or a non-descript one that is - in reality - equally as good... but shed-loads cheaper.

 

[Ja_T]

It doesn't need to be so. Yes, the common German "speed pedelec" tackle is obscenely priced. But pretty much any Bafang mid-driven e-bike can not only deliver a reliable 28mph/ 45kph, but in an easy user-programmable way that suits you.

It depends if you want a noncey over-priced German name on the frame, or a non-descript one that is - in reality - equally as good... but shed-loads cheaper.

Yes, I could build one or buy a cheaper model but not sure how easy it would be to type approve it and get insurance. The government needs to sort the type approval laws as they are strangling a growing market.
I would like to have a go at building a bike with a Bafang BBSHD motor at some point.

 

[Ja_T]

I agree the current approach to scooters is confusing and makes a mockery of the regs that e-bikes have to conform too.
There was a recent report of a chap being done for riding a scooter whilst drunk. Therefore it is a motor vehicle, so why do they not have reg plates, brake light, the need to wear a helmet etc?
I don't think you'd have any luck with the speed limit thing. It's a pretty much international standard (26kph) accepted by lazy regulatory bodies, we're lucky we didn't get saddled with the Japanese limit of 12mph.
What you say about equating bike speed to traffic does seem to have some merit, however there is the current drive to restrict all urban areas to 20mph which is a speed achievable by a fit cyclist (above assist cutof speed) anyway. So, again, I don't think you'd get any joy.
The speed of assist debate has been had many times on the forum.
We are currently blessed to be able to ride uncluttered by protective gear, without insurance, tax, reg plates etc. The feel is that if we stir the hornets nest we will end up having to jump through all sorts of regulatory hoops just to ride to the shops or the pub.

As to pricing - I agree. There are manufacturers who well and truly screw the unknowing to the floor. Then have the nerve to produce a bike that is unrepairable and will only accept oem electrical components at eye watering costs. Caveat Emptor is still alive and kicking where e-bikes are concerned.
However if you consider that it's easy to pay 2grand plus for some skimpy 10 kilo road bike, it's understandable.
For me cycling is a cheap, garden shed maintainable form of transport, and long may it be so.

Too many fools flying around on overpowered scooters atm! I don't want to change the laws for current e-bikes 25kph with no licence needed is great. I have 2 folding bikes atm, a Byocycle Chameleon which I have just respoked the MXUS f06 hub motor to a new rim and a Volt Metro.
It's the type approval for speed pedelecs that needs sorting I would like one for longer journeys, 20 plus miles on roads.
I was just thinking how good it would be if they could make a limit button on them so they could still be used on cycle lanes, lol wishful thinking probably.
As I said I have a full bike licence and would wear the required equipment etc.
I don't think I would invest in building one myself as I may have trouble type approving and insuring it and the ones on sale by shops with type approval are all of the expensive German variety.