Help with spoke problem

[aroncox]

I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas to help me out of my annoying situation.

My eZee Torq is great except for one issue, I continually break spokes on the front wheel. I have spent over £120 so far fixing the broken spokes when they come up, and it's not fun.

I suspect the biggest problem is that any bike mechanics I have found are unable to remove the front wheel and thus rebuild it properly, on top of that they thought the spokes I was supplied with by 50Cycles were the wrong length, but this in fact may be because the spoke threading/lacing is non-standard (if you have a picture of the spokes on the front wheel of an eZee Torq please post it), and therfore are making their own spokes which are probably not the correct strength.

This is ruining my enjoyment of this bicycle as I spend all my time worrying about the spokes and trying to avoid potholes (impossible in London), as well as having to hide my bike repair bills from my wife. Not a good situation.

Does anyone have any suggestions as how I can continue forward from now, I don't want to pay £30 evey few weeks for new spokes, but I don't know what else I can do?

Thanks for your help,

Aron.

 

[flecc]

Aron

The correct wheel build is "two cross". This means that if you follow along the length of any one spoke, it passes across two other spokes. Looking at the TOP of the hub edge at either side of the wheel, the spokes that leave the hub inclined towards the right are threaded so that they leave the hub from behind the ridge, those leaving in the other direction are threaded to leave from in front of the ridge.

The opposite way for both is probably* acceptable, but the two inclinations MUST NOT both leave from the same side of the ridge since that would stress the spoke shafts against each other.

If they conform to what I've said, it's the build quality that's at fault, with the rim being drawn into true by unevenly tensioned spokes, an error starting with poor initial assembly and tensioning, then compounded by persistence with that rather than backing them all off and starting again.

Another factor is that the hub end plate screws should be checked for tightness. Contrary to widely held opinion, the spoke gauge (thickness) is not very important.

One problem is that many of today's cycle trade skilled wheel builders have learned their skills on sophisticated wheel building jigs, which the Torq's wheel cannot be placed in. Many years ago, a cycle shop proprietor would build and true a wheel in nothing more sophisticated than forks clamped in a vice, using the spoke nipple key as the edge checker, and do an excellent job. Such a person could just as easily do it in the Torq's forks, with the bike clamped in a cycle stand and upside down with front brake arms removed to give full access to the fork/rim relationship. It is perfectly possible like that, and I'd advise you seek out a skilled cycle mechanic who's confident of his abilities to do that. You could print this out, (excluding this sentence!) and show it to a prospect, thus issuing a challenge which their pride could make them rise to!

* I say "probably", since the drive direction of the hub motor may introduce an additional force requiring one pattern only.

 

[rsscott]

Hi Aron,

I was hit side-on by a car a few months back and unfortunately suffered a buckled wheel. I basically cut away at the sheathing for the motor connectors on the side of the front fork, disconnected all the wires (making note of the connections!) and took it into a cycle shop. The replaced a couple of spokes and had the wheel true again within the hour.

It seems to be pretty bad luck that you are experiencing continual spoke problems. This shouldn't be happening with this regularity. I've almost complete 2,000 miles on my Torq now and apart from the event above have not suffered any other wheel problems.

 

[Jim]

hi Aron

I'm Jim, I've just started as the technical Manager at 50cycles, it strange you are having a problem with spokes we've only had a few cases of spoke breakages. If its a persistant problem I would recomend getting the bike back to us and i will rebuild the wheel for you, I'm an expericened wheel builder, this would be the best option if you are struggling to find somewhere to do this for you in london. If you drop me an e-mail on
workshop50cycles@googlemail.com I will sort out getting the bike back to us.

cheers

Jim

 

[flecc]

Hi Jim

Just an interjection to say welcome to the Forum and also say how good it is to have this on the spot support for eZeebikes from 50cycles.

 

[aroncox]

Hi Jim,

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for the reply. I'll email you tonight, but I just want to say thanks for the positive sounding message as it has been driving me crazy!

hi Aron

I'm Jim, I've just started as the technical Manager at 50cycles, it strange you are having a problem with spokes we've only had a few cases of spoke breakages. If its a persistant problem I would recomend getting the bike back to us and i will rebuild the wheel for you, I'm an expericened wheel builder, this would be the best option if you are struggling to find somewhere to do this for you in london. If you drop me an e-mail on
workshop50cycles@googlemail.com I will sort out getting the bike back to us.

cheers

Jim

 

[aroncox]

Wow, that sounds scary I hope you weren't injured at all?

Unfortunately I just don't have the space or equipment (or perhaps the intelligence/confidence) to remove the front wheel and get it back on again, I really wish it was easier to do this. I've called bike shops and they don't want to work on an electric bike (or more usually don't have a mechanic right now), and I've called motorbike shops who also don't want to touch an electric bike.

I did have the spoke fixed yesterday at a chain bike shop near work, but I only got halfway home when yet another spoke (or the same one) broke. I must admit I did hit a huge pothole at top speed, but it was raining so hard I could barely see the road.

Hi Aron,

I was hit side-on by a car a few months back and unfortunately suffered a buckled wheel. I basically cut away at the sheathing for the motor connectors on the side of the front fork, disconnected all the wires (making note of the connections!) and took it into a cycle shop. The replaced a couple of spokes and had the wheel true again within the hour.

It seems to be pretty bad luck that you are experiencing continual spoke problems. This shouldn't be happening with this regularity. I've almost complete 2,000 miles on my Torq now and apart from the event above have not suffered any other wheel problems.

 

[flecc]

Hi Aron

Two chances for Wheel Removal

1) The Auto-Electrical trade will be competent and happy to do all the wiring disconnection for you, leaving you to just unbolt the wheel. They can also do that for you as they're used to the mechanical part of getting access to vehicle electrics, and even sometimes do motorbike work. My Thompsons directory has eight in Croydon alone listed under Auto-Electrical, but if not ask at a local garage for the nearest auto electrical place.

2) Or, here's the full instructions on my site for wheel removal:

bike

 

[rsscott]

I was quite lucky in that I (almost) saw what was coming and managed to come to a halt just as my front wheel bounced off the car's front. I was turning right at a mini-roundabout and a boy-racer just flew across with total disregard for me. I could see he wasn't going to stop but I didn't spot the 2nd boy-racer behind him. Luckily it only cost me £9 to get the wheel sorted.

As for removing the wheel, it really is quite simple (but seems complicated). Just take your time and follow Flecc's instructions. You don't need any specialist equipment or lots of space. Mine was easily removed with the bike leaning against a shed.

Wow, that sounds scary I hope you weren't injured at all?

Unfortunately I just don't have the space or equipment (or perhaps the intelligence/confidence) to remove the front wheel and get it back on again, I really wish it was easier to do this. I've called bike shops and they don't want to work on an electric bike (or more usually don't have a mechanic right now), and I've called motorbike shops who also don't want to touch an electric bike.

I did have the spoke fixed yesterday at a chain bike shop near work, but I only got halfway home when yet another spoke (or the same one) broke. I must admit I did hit a huge pothole at top speed, but it was raining so hard I could barely see the road.

 

[aroncox]

Thanks for the information. I know you've suggested it to me before. I did call a motor bike shop, an auto electrics place, and a general home electrics place, but as soon as I mentioned it's an electric bike they said 'Nah mate, we won't touch that', and left me generally feeling embarassed that I'd even suggested it.

And while the removal of the front wheel doesn't sound too hard (and thanks for the instructions), if I screw it up then I am truly stuck and that's a big fear in my mind, it's not a cheap bicycle and I can't afford for it to stop working because I'd made some stupid mistake.

Anyway hopefully 50cycles will get back to me (no reply to last night's email yet) and this will all be sorted out soon!

Thanks for all your help!

Aron.

Hi Aron

Two chances for Wheel Removal

1) The Auto-Electrical trade will be competent and happy to do all the wiring disconnection for you, leaving you to just unbolt the wheel. They can also do that for you as they're used to the mechanical part of getting access to vehicle electrics, and even sometimes do motorbike work. My Thompsons directory has eight in Croydon alone listed under Auto-Electrical, but if not ask at a local garage for the nearest auto electrical place.

2) Or, here's the full instructions on my site for wheel removal:

bike

 

[flecc]

Understood Aron.

Those responses on the phone were probably "play safe" ones, and I'm not surprised by that. I think if you turned up at an auto electricians or even motor cycle shop and pointed to the insulating sleeve connector area of the cable alongside the fork saying there were 8 wire connections, then asking if they could do the disconnecting for you, and the reconnecting later, they might well say ok, seeing what a simple thing was being asked of them.

 

[rsscott]

I would pluck up the courage to have a go Aron! I removed the front and back wheels a few times in the comfort of the garden (even better with a bbq and beer - well in the summer anyway!)

This was to ensure should I get caught out on the road in the dark I will know what to do if I need to remove a wheel.

 

[aroncox]

I have to say the Winter is a factor too, I don't know about everyone else but all I want to do is sleep in the Winter! I wonder if humans ever hibernated in their distant past, as I'm sure I still have the genes. Still I could have a go in my living room, let's see what happens with 50cycles.

I would pluck up the courage to have a go Aron! I removed the front and back wheels a few times in the comfort of the garden (even better with a bbq and beer - well in the summer anyway!)

This was to ensure should I get caught out on the road in the dark I will know what to do if I need to remove a wheel.

 

[aroncox]

Just want to say thanks to those guys who offered ideas, any help is always appreciated. This is by far the most constructive and friendly forum I've ever seen, and the number of knowledgeable people here is great.

 

[rsscott]

Just want to say thanks to those guys who offered ideas, any help is always appreciated. This is by far the most constructive and friendly forum I've ever seen, and the number of knowledgeable people here is great.

Thanks for the thumbs up Aron! Hopefully as the forum grows we can continue to keep the community spirit