Help with new controller.

[OxygenJames]

Good afternoon fellow pedelecers.

I am trying to get a new controller to work with my bike - the old controller when on PAS mode would surge ahead almost uncontrollably - so I was advised by somebody here to get a 'KT' controller and a KT-LCD5. Which I've done. But here's the problem:

The motor when on full power throttle cuts out when the speed hits 15.7mph or after about 2 seconds running time whichever comes first (note - this is with the '30% power boost' white wires connected (meaning its turned off) - without them connected (ie the 30% boost turned on) the 'throttle' sign flashes up on the display momentarily but you get no drive to the motor).

Voltage remains around 38-39V up to an including as it cuts out.

Whereas when on PAS - level one (on the PAS) takes it to around 13mph - level 2 up to 15.7 but won't go over that - and all the other levels (there are 5) it won't go above 15.7mph - BUT IT DOES STILL RUN ON PAS - it does not cut out like it does when using the throttle to full.

OK - so I go into the settings for max speed - it's set at 77kph. I play around with that - manage to change the setting to 10mph and indeed it does top out at 10mph wont let you go over that (in PAS mode).

But no matter how high I then set it (25, 35, 45kph - it only lets you set it in KPH) - it tops out at 15.7mph.

And even if I set the max speed to say 10mph - on full throttle the motor still cuts out after 2 seconds.

I've tried it with two old controllers - neither of which I can wire up to the LCD-5 - and on full throttle the motor spins fine does not cut out.

Any thoughts from anybody would be great.

Thanks.

James.

 

[OxygenJames]

OK - so P settings as as follows with results:

The setting when I got in there was 90 - ie it was set at 90.

All those other settings 'work' - as in the motor spins up fine to about the same speed (sounds like the same speed) - but on the display we get different readings on what the speed is.

So - setting P1 to 80 - the speed when max pedalling (it won't go any higher) - stated on the display is 16.2mph

P1 set to 87: 15.9mph
90: 15.7
100: 13.9
141: 9.8
160: 8.7
202: 6.8
208: 6.6
223: 6.2

the PAS levels makes no difference after level 2 - you can't make it go any faster than it goes on PAS-2

On PAS-1 - the speed for each P1 setting is about 10-15% lower.

Using the throttle - it works on each P setting but cuts out (on all of them) - after 2 seconds.

The other P settings just so you know:

P2 - 0
P3 - 1
P4 - 0
P5 - 00

Does that shed any light on things?

Anybody?

 

[Nealh]

Don't shoot the messenger, I know it was me who advised to get the KT and they work as I have used them on quite a few different bikes and currently have the systems on two bikes and will also be on a third one which I haven't started the build yet but in time will post a thread on it from a bare bones frame.

Right the max throttle speed may because of the max rpm of the hub or too much current for the battery to supply and it cuts out. Could be down to the hubs max rpm or an ageing battery.
Which hub do you have and may be a pic or two of any writing/labels attached to it.
Or the controllers may now be programmed so 25/26 km/h is the max the throttle will assist to, this could be the case to bring them in line with world legislation.
I have one which acts the same on throttle with my newest 9 mosfet KT 25A controller, I can hit 25mph in PAS2 mode (48v) but not on throttle.

The controller default is current control and you should see the same max speed in all PAS, only the current changes in each PAS level. On flat terrain you might feel the acceleration is a bit more peppy in each assist level but it true colours shines on incline esp steeper ones the difference between all five is noticeable until you get to five then you think you are a TDF rider.

Most hubs will utilise P1 setting 81 - 87 (Verify the lcd speed with a gps unit or phone gps), unless it is an Aikema hub or one with a higher gearing reduction ratio number like the new Bafang G370 hub.

P2 relates to the wheel speed sensor /magnet most use one magnet for sensing so P2/1 should give lcd speed read out, sometimes when you free wheel the speed reads zero so you might need to try P2/6 as some hubs use six internal magnets.

P3/1 is for current control in PAS1 you should have no problem in hitting max speed though you might have to pedal for it, you should be able to ride above the cut off speed. My cut off speed is currently set for 26km/h or 16.5mph and I can in benign conditions pedal above this up to 22mph indicated.

P4/0 is throttle always active, P4/1 is pedal first.
You will need to check the C parameters to make sure C4 is also set to C4/0.

P5 relates to battery bar display on the lcd for 36v and real time charge capacity use P5/10, the four segments will each equate to approx 25% of battery used, though it is trial and error. You can get a rough idea by checking the battery with a meter as each segment goes out, my batteries withLCD2 on last segment have 35-36v remaining approx so I know I can get about 6- 12 miles out of the battery depending on PAS level used.

 

[OxygenJames]

OK - so P settings as as follows with results:

The setting when I got in there was 90 - ie it was set at 90.

All those other settings 'work' - as in the motor spins up fine to about the same speed (sounds like the same speed) - but on the display we get different readings on what the speed is.

So - setting P1 to 80 - the speed when max pedalling (it won't go any higher) - stated on the display is 16.2mph

P1 set to 87: 15.9mph
90: 15.7
100: 13.9
141: 9.8
160: 8.7
202: 6.8
208: 6.6
223: 6.2

the PAS levels makes no difference after level 2 - you can't make it go any faster than it goes on PAS-2

On PAS-1 - the speed for each P1 setting is about 10-15% lower.

Using the throttle - it works on each P setting but cuts out (on all of them) - after 2 seconds.

The other P settings just so you know:

P2 - 0
P3 - 1
P4 - 0
P5 - 00

Does that shed any light on things?

Anybody?

OK - I've found the 'restore default settings' - I'll try that.

Otherwise why the heck is this thing maxing out at 16mph using PAS where the max speed is set to 77kph - and why is the motor completely cutting out after 2 seconds when using max throttle - and why are only 2 of the 5 levels making any difference to the assistance given?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[OxygenJames]

Don't shoot the messenger, I know it was me who advised to get the KT and they work as I have used them on quite a few different bikes and currently have the systems on two bikes and will also be on a third one which I haven't started the build yet but in time will post a thread on it from a bare bones frame.

Right the max throttle speed may because of the max rpm of the hub, which hub do you have and may be a pic or two of any writing/labels attached to it.

Most hubs will utilise P1 81 - 87 (Verify the lcd speed with a gps unit or phone gps), unless it is an Aikema hub or one with a higher gearing reduction ratio number like the new Bafang G370 hub.
P2 relates to the wheel speed sensor /magnet most use one magnet for sensing so P2/1 should give lcd speed read out, sometimes when you free wheel the speed reads zero so you might need to try P2/6.

P3/1 is for current control in PAS1 you should have no problem in hitting max speed though you might have to pedal for it, you should be able to ride above the cut off speed. My cut cut off speed is currently set for 16.5mph and I can in benign conditions pedal above this up to 22mph indicated.

P4/0 is throttle always active, P4/1 is pedal first.
You will need to check the C parameters to make sure C4 is also set to C4/0.

P5 relates to battery bar display on the lcd for 36v and real time charge capacity use P5/10, the four segments will each equate to approx 25% of battery used, though it is trial and error. You can get a rough idea by checking the battery with a meter as each segment goes out, my batteries withLCD2 on last segment have 35-36v remaining approx so I know I can get about 6- 12 miles out of the battery depending on PAS level used.

I am not out to shoot you. But to wean out the information most relevant to what I want - let's say that's true for sure.

Let's deal with them one at a time maybe.

The fact that the throttle is cutting out after 2 seconds - is anything in what you say above directly connected to that issue - if so please could you tell me which bit - and what I should be experimenting with.

Because if the throttle can not work at max throttle then I will chuck this new controller out - that's a red line for me. I have to be able to have max throttle without the motor cutting out. And preferably with the '30% boost' working (which on this controller is achieved by connecting two white wires together).

Dealing with things one at a time...

 

[Nealh]

Does PAS5 work ok without cut out with current set to max value ?

 

[Andy-Mat]

Does PAS5 work ok without cut out with current set to max value ?

Is the max current "settable" on this controller? If so, it is maybe set too high and the battery simply cannot supply the demand as it is too small, too old, or simply partially defective....
Just a thought.
Andy

 

[wheeliepete]

And preferably with the '30% boost' working (which on this controller is achieved by connecting two white wires together).

I think you will find full speed is achieved with the white wires disconnected.

 

[OxygenJames]

Does PAS5 work ok without cut out with current set to max value ?

Yes. But it's no more powerful that pas4 or 3 or 2. Only 1 makes any difference - all the rest provide the same speed/assistance.

 

[Nealh]

I have a lot on my plate at the mo so not thinking 100% straight.

Pete is correct the speed wires need disconnecting to gain the extra speed 30% speed.

Also as Andy mentions if under throttle the bike cuts out after a few seconds then simply the battery CANNOT handle the current asked of it. The throttles generally can't be feathered much and allow for 100% current delivery instantly where as PAS5 acts in delivering also max current but at a more leisurely input, either the current needs reducing to prevent this or a new better battery is needed. Voltage is only an indicator of how well the cells are balanced it doesn't tell you the ageing affect or whether the cells are beyond their youth or are knackered.

Using C5 parameter change the current setting to see how low the current needs to be set to prevent the throttle cut out, if it still cuts out on a low current setting then the battery is very aged and cells are sagging badly.

 

[Nealh]

Yes. But it's no more powerful that pas4 or 3 or 2. Only 1 makes any difference - all the rest provide the same speed/assistance.

If that is the case your battery isn't up to it.
I can notice the difference in all PAS levels.

Remind us of the battery you are using and it's approx age......

 

[OxygenJames]

The battery is brand new. The motor does not cut out with two other (non KT) controllers I try. Nor does it cut out using PAS. When the white wires are disconnected (to give the 30% boost) - the throttle won't work at all.

The guy I bought it from is suggesting there is a hardware issue and he thinks the best solution is to swap it for another controller which he will send me.

P5 was set at 00.

 

[wheeliepete]

It deff. sounds like there is a fault within the controller. I've not experienced any of the issues you describe with the KT controllers I've had. Hope your seller sorts it out.

 

[Nealh]

Agree Pete, only issue's I have encountered are thermal cut out with the 6 mosfet models.

 

[OxygenJames]

OK - here's the latest situation after I did a c - 10 restore default setting:


With the white wires connected - and using the throttle - the wheel spins up to...... 20mph - (max speed is set at 77kph) - and DOES NOT CUT OUT.

With the white wires disconnected - no drive at all.

With PAS - All levels seem to offer the same drive - all levels take the speed up to 20mph but won't go above.

With the white wires disconnected (using PAS this is) - exactly the same.

On PAS - if you pedal faster than 20mph - the speed on the display remains at 20mph - even though the wheel is now definitely spinning faster.

If we could just get the 5 levels working I'd be happy - 20mph is plenty fast enough - but I'd really like at least 3 levels.

P settings as follows:

P1: 87
P2: 0
p3: 1
P4: 0
P5 00

C settings:

1 - 2
2 - 0
3 - 8
4 - 0
5 - 10
6 - 3
7 - 0
8 - 0
9 - 0
10 - n

Any thoughts?

 

[Andy-Mat]

The battery is brand new. The motor does not cut out with two other (non KT) controllers I try. Nor does it cut out using PAS. When the white wires are disconnected (to give the 30% boost) - the throttle won't work at all.

The guy I bought it from is suggesting there is a hardware issue and he thinks the best solution is to swap it for another controller which he will send me.

P5 was set at 00.

Telling us that the battery is brand new is good, but you do need to also state its capacity. Usually in Amp Hours of AH.
Also the current (pun intended!) level of amps that the controller is set up to draw, may simply be too much for the battery to supply.
For example, if its a small "sized" battery, that problem could still be caused with the new battery, and the maximum amps drawn, need to be set to a far lower value in the controller.
On my bike, I have one small and one larger battery, same voltage of course, and the value I set for the controller is 15 amps max.
I am talking generally, as I do not know the particular controller you have, but the ones I have known, have various parameters that can be set, via the LCD, for example..
Andy

 

[OxygenJames]

Telling us that the battery is brand new is good, but you do need to also state its capacity. Usually in Amp Hours of AH.
Also the current (pun intended!) level of amps that the controller is set up to draw, may simply be too much for the battery to supply.
For example, if its a small "sized" battery, that problem could still be caused with the new battery, and the maximum amps drawn, need to be set to a far lower value in the controller.
On my bike, I have one small and one larger battery, same voltage of course, and the value I set for the controller is 15 amps max.
I am talking generally, as I do not know the particular controller you have, but the ones I have known, have various parameters that can be set, via the LCD, for example..
Andy

Thanks Andy - it's a 10ah - but in any case since the reset I did it is not cutting out (see my previous post).

I'm ditching this controller - he's sending me another one - I'll see how I get on with that.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Thanks Andy - it's a 10ah - but in any case since the reset I did it is not cutting out (see my previous post).

I'm ditching this controller - he's sending me another one - I'll see how I get on with that.

Good to hear!

 

[Nealh]

I have already said P2/1 or P2/6.