Help with conversion kit choice

[Rusty Chains]

So im looking to convert my work bike due to now having to ride further for work

The bike has hydraulic disc brakes, full guards and a good set of wheels

My commute is 26 miles a day with 800ft of elevation so looking for a kit that can handle doing that 5 days a week in all weathers

Id rather have a mid mounted torque sensing kit like the Tonsheng tsdz2b fitted with a minimal display and long battery range

Now i want to be able to pedal along easily at 20mph and also have throttle assist for those windy days when my legs are tired (wont be used for the whole commute, just small sections) so not sure what version of the Tonsheng tsdz2b and what battery would be best for this

Thanks

 

[sjpt]

Are you wanting to keep the kit legal for that use?
That means no assist above 15.5mph, so not easy to pedal along at 20mph.
You'll also have to keep the pedals turning a bit (no pressure needed) to make the throttle legal.

You may well be able to get the Tonsheng to do what you want if you are willing to take the (not very high) risk of being caught.
Many people suggest hub kits for commuting; that much simpler and with the advantage of ghost pedalling if you want.
(I don't see why torque kits don't have a max option that ignores your torque and gives full power with minimal pedalling, but they don't usually seem to.)

 

[saneagle]

TSDZ2 is OK for relaxed cycling, like a ride in the country, but it's very slow compared with a hub motor. If you want 20 mph, a TSDZ8 would be better, but even then, a hub motor would beat it for reliability, dependability, cost, comfort and convenience. I think you'd die of boredom using a TSDZ2 because it takes so long to get up hills.

My commute was 28.8 miles a day. I used a crank motor once and immediately decided that a hub-motor is a better solution. I never had a single problem with the hub-motor during 2 1/2 years of doing that commute. I had a broken gear cable once - no problem with a hub-motor, and I had a minor crash once that damaged my knee so that I couldn't pedal. Again, no problem with a throttle and hub-motor, apart from the legality.

You can have a throttle on a TSDZ2, but you can't make it legal, and it's no good for a long commute if you were in the same situation. I had to use mine to get to the shop about 1/2 mile away, when my knee seized up so that I couldn't drive or pedal. I was OK as long as I didn't change gear. It wasn't very pleasant, while as my hub-motor bike would have done it like a moped.

 

[thelarkbox]

I fitted a yose-power all in one rear wheel kit (see icon) early summer 2023, and it still brings a smile to my sad ol face at the foot of every local slope and hill.. Plenty of torque or Oomph to pull me ( 90+kg) along with a full load returning from tesco etc.. The basic cadence pas takes a bit of getting used to, and really threw me for a few weeks, but once used to it precise control via level selection and brake cut off feathering is a doddle, and the unpowered resistance of the hub motor is negligible. Living Up slope from most destinations i will regularly ride out without power only engaging when again riding against gravity and can hardly notice any difference with pre conversion riding.

While finding my feet with the cadence pas and basic controller ( virtually zero config options) I ordered the usually recommended KT controller/display combo, But by the time it had arrived I had mastered the knack of controlling the bike having shed the expectations based on years on traditional m/cycles..So the bike is still using the original yose controller/display. - It works just fine..

Powerwise - plenty.. Its pulled me up a hill that iirc a puch maxi would stall half way up.. granted at only 8mph crowning the hill and unlike on the moped i was indeed pedaling and contributing to the effort.

circa 18months on the battery is still accepting a full charge.

Range wise, for a 26mile round trip I would play safe and recharge the battery during the working day, Otherwise unless you have miles of steep climbing you may not need to fork out the mid drive premium.

My experience is however limited to this bike and a couple of others i picked up from a pals junk pile of his lads rejects. And i am a bit of a yose fan boy due in no small part to my positive experience..

 

[Az.]

Legal e-bikes are good for cycling up to 15.5mph. Above 15.5mph e-bikes are counterproductive.

TSDZ2B is obsolete now. You can buy legal TSDZ8 from Woosh. With TSDZ8 you won't feel need for a throttle. Prices of batteries are all time low now. You can have 48 V 17.5Ah Samsung battery delivered for £185. TSDZ8 is very powerful. At max assist it feels to me like ghost pedaling.

 

[Rusty Chains]

Cheers for the replies, some info that may be helpful, i ve been fixing bikes for over 40 years, can rebuild wheels, strip a bike down to every nut and bolt and rebuild it, bleed brakes, serviced/rebuilt suspension etc... ive built 12k road bikes and expensive e-mtb's (helping out a mate who had a shop) so im quite handy with a spanner

I do kinda want to keep it legal just in case i ever get stopped

On the other hand being restricted to 15mph means my commute would take around 52 minutes each way and at 20mph it would make it 39 minutes each way which is only 13 minutes difference but that adds up to 26 minutes a day, which is over 2 hours a week extra

So i was thinking about a kit that meets all the legal requirements with regards to ouput, throttle etc.. but with the cut off speed changed to 20/25mph (still illegal but less noticable than zooming along not pedalling or riding along at 30mph+)

Id rather go for a mid motor over a hub one for various reasons, easier to fix punctures (never fun in the dark and rain!) the bike already has some nice wheels which id like to keep and im just not a fan or the rear hub motor look

So id be looking at a TSDZ8 250w kit from Woosh
A pair of brake sensors (Woosh ship with brake levers which i dont need/wont work)
Different controller/screen (not keen on the ones in the Woosh kit)
Finally a battery, was thinking of a 48v 20ah battery which should give the range i need with plenty to spare

 

[saneagle]

Cheers for the replies, some info that may be helpful, i ve been fixing bikes for over 40 years, can rebuild wheels, strip a bike down to every nut and bolt and rebuild it, bleed brakes, serviced/rebuilt suspension etc... ive built 12k road bikes and expensive e-mtb's (helping out a mate who had a shop) so im quite handy with a spanner

I do kinda want to keep it legal just in case i ever get stopped

On the other hand being restricted to 15mph means my commute would take around 52 minutes each way and at 20mph it would make it 39 minutes each way which is only 13 minutes difference but that adds up to 26 minutes a day, which is over 2 hours a week extra

So i was thinking about a kit that meets all the legal requirements with regards to ouput, throttle etc.. but with the cut off speed changed to 20/25mph (still illegal but less noticable than zooming along not pedalling or riding along at 30mph+)

Id rather go for a mid motor over a hub one for various reasons, easier to fix punctures (never fun in the dark and rain!) the bike already has some nice wheels which id like to keep and im just not a fan or the rear hub motor look

Hub-motor makes no difference regarding punctures for two reasons:
1. You don't have to take the wheel off to fix a puncture
2. For a commuter bike, you shouldn't be using tyres that let you get punctures. You should fit Schwalbe marathon Plus tyres to remain puncture free, so it's no longer an issue. there's nothing worse than getting a puncture on your way to work on any bike.

A mid-drive is not as good as a hub-motor for commuting for many reasons that I mentioned above. I only give advice so that you can make an informed choice. It's up to you what you decide to do.

 

[Rusty Chains]

Hub-motor makes no difference regarding punctures for two reasons:
1. You don't have to take the wheel off to fix a puncture
2. For a commuter bike, you shouldn't be using tyres that let you get punctures. You should fit Schwalbe marathon Plus tyres to remain puncture free, so it's no longer an issue. there's nothing worse than getting a puncture on your way to work on any bike.

A mid-drive is not as good as a hub-motor for commuting for many reasons that I mentioned above. I only give advice so that you can make an informed choice. It's up to you what you decide to do.

1. i do as i normally just fit a new tube, chuck the old one in my bag and repair it when i get home so its ready to re fit when i get the next puncture

2. Ive been using Marathon Plus and Durano Plus on my commuter and road bike for nearly 15 years (been commuting for 17 years) you can still get punctures, my commute goes through a busy city centre (littered with glass from broken bottles and car accidents) and out into the countryside and then into a busy town, ive slashed a few tyres and repaired them by the roadside with some cardboard inside the tyre covering the slash to get me home

Thanks but i still prefer the look of a crank motor than a hub one and it will just be easier for punctures etc..

 

[thelarkbox]

Hope its not the same advert-articles google force fed me when first browsing the ebike subject thats framing your preference? I certainly started my search for a solution with the idea that hub drives were less than thanks to google..

Just weigh up the extra drive train maintenance and replacement fitting against the number of expected punctures perhaps? you know you will need to do more chain wear etc monitoring/replacing,,, punctures??

If attached to the wheels rim look, buy a hub and relace the rim, its a doddle thanks to youtube and a couple of retrys.
and will be even cheaper. The overly large motors you may have seen on some delivery bikes are Direct drive motors rated 1000w+ while most geared hub motors rated 250w are smaller in diameter than the low gears mounted on them.

Yes mid drive bikes can take advantage of the bikes gears, but the benefit there afaik is when climbing steep long hills.
In order to be exploited for speed wouldn't your gears and chainring would need to be appropriate?

 

[saneagle]

Cheers for the replies, some info that may be helpful, i ve been fixing bikes for over 40 years, can rebuild wheels, strip a bike down to every nut and bolt and rebuild it, bleed brakes, serviced/rebuilt suspension etc... ive built 12k road bikes and expensive e-mtb's (helping out a mate who had a shop) so im quite handy with a spanner

I do kinda want to keep it legal just in case i ever get stopped

On the other hand being restricted to 15mph means my commute would take around 52 minutes each way and at 20mph it would make it 39 minutes each way which is only 13 minutes difference but that adds up to 26 minutes a day, which is over 2 hours a week extra

So i was thinking about a kit that meets all the legal requirements with regards to ouput, throttle etc.. but with the cut off speed changed to 20/25mph (still illegal but less noticable than zooming along not pedalling or riding along at 30mph+)

Id rather go for a mid motor over a hub one for various reasons, easier to fix punctures (never fun in the dark and rain!) the bike already has some nice wheels which id like to keep and im just not a fan or the rear hub motor look

So id be looking at a TSDZ8 250w kit from Woosh
A pair of brake sensors (Woosh ship with brake levers which i dont need/wont work)
Different controller/screen (not keen on the ones in the Woosh kit)
Finally a battery, was thinking of a 48v 20ah battery which should give the range i need with plenty to spare

You came here asking for advice, but you know all the answers already. All I can do in that case is to wish you good luck.

 

[guerney]

Dudes on ES have been complaining about how the TSDZ8's assistance levels are difficult to adjust. Lower level assistance doesn't appear to be sufficiently possible without alternative firmware, and you need to buy accessories to write that firmware. Much cheaper to make adjustments to a cadence sensored 36V BBS01B kit, when the controller is fully writeable (not all are). BBSXX(X) programming cables are cheap.

Somewhere on this thread:

new tsdz8 pswpower

hey There is New motor. new tsdz2 called tsdz8 ? for purchase @ pswpower https://www.pswpower.com/products/tsdz2b-tongsheng-48v-500w-350w-15a-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-mid-motor-with-torque-sensor-throttle-e-brake-lever-vlcd5-vld6-xh18-lcd-850c-292 anyone has this yet ?

endless-sphere.com

but with the cut off speed changed to 20/25mph (still illegal but less noticable than zooming along not pedalling or riding along at 30mph+)

I do miss zooming about effortlessly at 20mph+. Pesky laws. Can't even kill anyone you want with your bear hands. It's political correctness gone mad.

 

[goral]

So im looking to convert my work bike due to now having to ride further for work

The bike has hydraulic disc brakes, full guards and a good set of wheels

My commute is 26 miles a day with 800ft of elevation so looking for a kit that can handle doing that 5 days a week in all weathers

Id rather have a mid mounted torque sensing kit like the Tonsheng tsdz2b fitted with a minimal display and long battery range

Now i want to be able to pedal along easily at 20mph and also have throttle assist for those windy days when my legs are tired (wont be used for the whole commute, just small sections) so not sure what version of the Tonsheng tsdz2b and what battery would be best for this

Thanks

Bafang BBSHD 1000w 52V plus 20Ah battery.
And you will be more than satisfied.
Such a motor will give you a range of at least 35 miles without any problems.
Range of several factors, but that 35 miles is pretty much a guarantee in all scenarios, including climbs, sometimes severe ones. You'll be able to climb hills without putting undue strain on the motor, which has 160 nM of torque.
I've been driving this kit for almost a year now, practically every day. For me, the bike has become something essential, something I can no longer live without On public roads, many times the police followed me because they could not overtake me legally (a lot of traffic from the opposite side), on paths, riding up hills.
For this kit you have a special sticker with legalisation.
If you don't go crazy on the pavement chasing pedestrians at 30mph, you won't be stopped, because the police have no such guidelines.
If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them as a user of such a kit.


Now all you moralists on legality - let's start!

 

[Waspy]

 

[Nealh]

No sticker or mode adjustment can make a moped legal.

 

[Az.]

So id be looking at a TSDZ8 250w kit from Woosh

Woosh offered a discount for members of this forum. Not sure if it is still valid, but worth to ask. Check first post:

Woosh starts shipping Tongsheng TSDZ8 with 250W label

It's a bit of a beast, but a good looking one, complete with throttle and a 250W Tongsheng label to comply with EPAC regulations. You can leave the throttle kit in the box, your installation will be of course neater. Gone is the anti-torque hanger on the TSDZ2B. Powerwise, it is basically...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

TSDZ8 sold by Woosh is the most powerful legal mid drive sold in UK (that I know of)

A pair of brake sensors (Woosh ship with brake levers which i dont need/wont work)
Different controller/screen (not keen on the ones in the Woosh kit)
Finally a battery, was thinking of a 48v 20ah battery which should give the range i need with plenty to spare

You will find all here at reasonable price:

Tongsheng TSDZ2 Torque sensor mid motor Kits

Tongsheng TSDZ2 Torque sensor mid motor Kits

www.pswpower.com

I like VLCD10. You will need also 1T4 cable.

20Ah batteries are huge. Keep that in mind. Regardless of capacity, make sure you buy battery pack made of good quality cells.

Having said all that, for commuting only I would choose rear hub motor as recommended by others earlier.

 

[Brik]

This is my third winter on a Bafang mid drive conversion, my commute is only 4 miles one way but if it's raining then I can be home 10 minutes after I clock out.
Chain wear was an issue but I now use a single speed chain rather than 7 speed.

 

[Raboa]

I have ridden both mid drive and hub.

Mid drive

Good
Keeps weight in the centre of the bike
Can swap wheels easily (this is good if you run spiked tyres on a separate set of wheels)
No frame modifications needed (some people have had to do this though)

Bad
Affects chainline and width of bottom bracket
Specialized chainrings unless you fit adapter
More wear on chain and cassette

Hub
Good
Does not affect bottom bracket
width
Can use standard chainrings without extra parts
Less wear on chain and cassette

Bad
Cannot swap wheels easily
Weight not centred
Frame modifications needed

I went from hub drive to a BBS02, if I was to do it again I would go back to hub drive. There are fans of both systems on the site, I feel that a hub drive gives a better cycling experience and requires less extra and specific parts

I have not tried the TSDZ8 so I cannot comment on its performance.

Improvements could be made to both systems, an example of this would mid drives using standard chainrings and hub motors using a thru axle / quick release mounting dropout system.

It might be an idea for Woosh to set up three identical bikes on turbo trainers with a hub, the BBS02 and the TSDZ8 mounted to give customers some experience of each system.

I am sure you will enjoy whatever system you choose, this site is great for information and tips

 

[Cyclist]

+1 on hub motors
+1 on Yose 350W(20mph) rear kit,its amazing and almost no maintenance so far in 1 year..